[00:00:00] Babita: I think that external validation it's a dangerous thing to do because when you seek external validation and it's ripped from you or taken away from you or you change jobs or you change partners, you are left with a hole that needs to be healed.
[00:00:13] And if you haven't healed it, then you're like, where am I? Who am I? I that it was a gift, as painful as it was, extrapolating myself from the system that was the institution of the BBC. I say painful, but it was like, it wasn't painful once I came on board with it.
[00:00:30] When I was resisting it, it was like, this is not comfortable. And then when I went with it, I was like, okay, this is what freedom feels like.
[00:00:38] Aneta: We often hear people wishing us a long, happy and healthy life, but what if the length isn't what matters most? What if instead, it's the breath depth and purpose of each day that matters most? Welcome to the Live the Width of Your Life podcast. My name is Aneta Ardelian Kuzma and join me weekly as I interview guests who made changes in their own lives to live more fully with intention, gratitude, and joy. Be prepared to be inspired by their stories of how they shifted their mindset, took courageous action, and designed the life that they always wanted to live.
[00:01:12] Welcome back to Live The Width Of Your Life podcast. Today's conversation was so good. It was with my friend, Babita Sharma. She is a distinguished broadcaster, journalist, award winning author, and she has over 15 years of experience working at the BBC. She was a chief news presenter, and she's reported on major global events, such as COVID 19 pandemic, 2020 US elections, the Black Lives Matter protests, earning the Asian Achievement Award.
[00:01:40] And then she also wrote a book called The Corner Shop, which explores the social history of Britain and corner shops, which was inspired by her own childhood in the eighties in Britain. The book won a business book award. She was featured on BBC radio four and BBC's twos between the covers book club.
[00:01:57] She's also authored a children's book series, The Adventures of Priya Mystery, which was published by hatchet children's group. She's a leading voice on multicultural Britain. Babita's delivered a Ted talk on immigration and presented documentaries like Dangerous Borders: The Story of India and Pakistan retracing her own family's journey 70 years after the partition, as she chairs high profile events, including the UN world investment forum, COP 27, and the world AI summit.
[00:02:27] She is committed to diversity and mental health advocacy. She is an amazing person with so many accolades, and I just got lucky enough to sit on a plane from Belfast to London about a year ago, and we struck up a conversation and had so many parallel things happening in our own lives and just loved it.
[00:02:46] And I'm so grateful that she came on to the show today. You're going to love our discussion. We went in so many different areas and can't wait to have her back again. Take a listen.
[00:02:56] Babita, it is so good to see you again.
[00:03:01] Babita: I can't believe this is happening. We've been talking about it for ages, haven't we? I say ages, but in the short but lovely, meaningful time we've known each other it's just so wonderful to be here and to be on your incredible podcast. So thank you for inviting me.
[00:03:12] Aneta: Thank you for saying yes. I know you've had a really busy year. You and I were just catching up. It was one of those moments in life where you were open to blessings and recognize it. And it really was you and I sat next to each other, on a flight from Belfast to London. And we just started talking, which doesn't always happen.
[00:03:32] Some people don't like to talk for some reason we connected and we started really sharing life stuff together, which also doesn't always happen, and then we just kept in touch, which I was super grateful for. And I just knew that we would continue to have conversations and it was like a short flight too, it's an hour. How long is it usually from?
[00:03:51] Babita: Yeah, I think it's like a 45 minutes in the actual air, so we covered quite a lot of ground. And I think when we started, we were both curious, weren't we, about each other's lives. And I think when we started sharing, which you're right, people don't often do. And then we realized there's like a synergy between us and our paths and just where we were at just seemed to click. And you know what, if we were to replay that, I doubt it would be the same again. It's just that moment, in that time, in our lives, in that space, on that plane.
[00:04:22] Aneta: Absolutely. And I think one of the things I was going to a conference, I was visiting my friend, Caroline, who's sitting in the row in front of us. And you were going back home, I think to visit your father, maybe in London. And I think one of the things that was interesting is you asked what I did, and I talked about how I left banking and I was there for 22 years, 25 and corporate started my business.
[00:04:46] And you started to share with me a little bit about your story and how you actually also made a career shift and pivot, I think during COVID. So can you walk us through a little bit about, you were a BBC correspondent. You had this amazing job. I know we talked about you were in the White House at different times.
[00:05:07] You had an amazing career and you decided to make a shift. So walk me through what was happening when you decided maybe there's something different that I want to be doing in my life.
[00:05:18] Babita: Yeah, it's interesting because I can give you dates and times, but those don't actually correlate to what was happening in my brain before those dates and times terms of leaving your career. I think I was what we call here in the UK, it was a chief news presenter, it's such a BBC term, but it's a news anchor for your American audience.
[00:05:35] So I was a news anchor for about 15, 18 years at the BBC for world news. Which was a rolling news channel like CNN I'm sure you guys have it there and it was incredible, I had an incredible career many years before I was presenting, I was a producer, so I've been in the BBC for a long time, immersed in news and breaking news and current affairs but it got to a point and I suppose it's hard for people to understand when you are in a high profile position that is something that from the outside looking in is wow, you've reached the pinnacle of your career.
[00:06:09] And I suppose in some ways I had, but then I couldn't wait to move out of that. I'd worked so hard to get to that stage, I think, because I think that's what was expected of me as a journalist and as a presenter. And then when the seed was planted in my own head, that something just wasn't quite fitting, whether it was the next trip abroad or the next news event or another documentary series.
[00:06:32] I don't say that lightly. I was very grateful for those opportunities, but I remember thinking, there's something else that I want to do. And this is not quite, I'm not getting the same buzz out of this that I was before. And that's when I started to explore other avenues and I started writing a bit more.
[00:06:48] And I know you're a writer and I think being in the broadcast medium as a television News anchor writing something down was quite a personal private experience as opposed to being in a newsroom with editorial meetings with so many people. And we found a bit of power in that and I really liked finding a bit more of my authentic voice.
[00:07:07] Because as a news presenter, particularly with the BBC, we are encouraged to not have our opinions heard. We're impartial in the kind of news cycle. So I think when I started to do more writing. And more creative ideas on my own and pursuing that. I thought, this feels good. This feels right.
[00:07:26] But of course, I wasn't able to make that complete break then at that moment, and it was only until maybe let's say about three or four years later that the opportunity came where, redundancy was on the cards and it was like, do I leave? Do I not leave? All those questions because my identity had been so wrapped up in my career and, I was front facing, I was on TV, so my profile, everything about me was tied up with this organization.
[00:07:52] So to break away from that felt like I was ending a relationship, and at times a toxic relationship. But when I did eventually leave, which was 2021 I had just become a mom, my daughter was It was a year and a bit at that time, so that was also another life changing experience where I was away from the newsroom on maternity leave, and I was starting to feel that the space is giving me a bit of clarity, the distance is giving me an opportunity to think.
[00:08:19] If you've ever been in a newsroom, it's fast paced, it's cutthroat, especially with the news agenda as it is now, as it was then, it was quite full on in terms of content of what we're dealing with. So to have that space was just like to breathe a little bit more. And I think that's when I was able to make some moments, but of course the universe was pushing me and I wasn't quite ready to go.
[00:08:40] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:08:41] Babita: still pushing me. Okay, redundancies come up. Are you going to take it? I didn't take it the first time it came up. The second time it came up, I didn't take it. The third time it's do it. Then COVID happened. It's do it. We're giving you all these opportunities to think. And are you going to take that step? And when I took the step, I thought, and I know, I remember you saying this to me as well about your own journey. Why did I not do this sooner?
[00:09:03] Aneta: Yeah. And thank you for sharing that. And I think that so much of what you said resonated with me because I also had been thinking about this for so long and the mind. Always looking for reasons to stay where you are, even if it's uncomfortable, it's still more comfortable than leaving and, making a big change in your life.
[00:09:25] And so I wonder for you, did you have either family members or friends or colleagues maybe say, what are you doing? Like why would you be leaving this job? You have such an amazing career or were people more supportive because they knew that maybe. It wasn't something that you were going to do longer term.
[00:09:45] Babita: I think my mom, who was absolutely devastated, this is an Indian woman who came into the UK in the 1960s and was very much part of that generation of the immigrant experience in Britain. So the idea that I was working for public service broadcaster, like the BBC of this is very good.
[00:10:02] Your daughter's done so well and it was for her it was like the accolade, the badge, it was like, wow, my daughter's working for the BBC. I think she really struggled to understand why I'd be, having worked so hard for 20 years, getting to that high point as a news presenter, why I would then say, I don't want it anymore.
[00:10:20] Because for her and my father, getting a job, holding down a job, providing for the family was very important. The idea that you would choose something else as if choice was an option. Was like, what? And then the idea that I was not fulfilled or happy. Well, again, didn't come into it.
[00:10:39] It's you're getting paid this amount of money and you're on TV. What more do you want? So I think, that was difficult for mom to understand. I think my husband, totally supportive because he knew that I was not fulfilled, creatively fulfilled. And when you are a creative person, you feel like your wings are being clipped a bit when you're held back. And that is like putting a bird in a cage. And that's how I felt. And I think he saw that there was room for growth. And I think I needed, thankfully, and I had friends that supported that decision to be like, yep, absolutely go for it. Ironically, the people that didn't necessarily support me were my peers that I was working with in the newsroom because we were all birds in this cage that were fluttering around together, so it's like we're all enablers in this strange environment.
[00:11:23] So if they see one person leave they're thinking what are we going to do here? And actually my leaving, not that it sparked anything else, but a lot of us left at that time. Bizarrely following different paths and continue to do and I think actually surrounding yourself by people that are going to empower you is really important when you're making decisions that you're not necessarily a hundred percent sure about. Because you can be swayed.
[00:11:47] Aneta: Yeah. I love that you're talking about the immigrant experience because I think I shared with you, my parents and I immigrated to the States when I was small and I think for the immigrant experience for so many people, our parents, it's about providing basic needs. It's finding the job that's going to provide for the basic needs of the family.
[00:12:07] And when they get that and they have that stability and they see their children get to a higher level, I think they can't really imagine wanting more and my parents were supportive, but my mom still questioned, are you sure this is better? Are you sure that moving into entrepreneurship is a better choice.
[00:12:25] I think she had so many fears and she had finally exhaled like, everything's okay. They want everyone to be okay and doing well. And so inviting uncertainty by making different life choice, maybe takes them back or triggers them. And it's like, why would you do that? You don't need to do it, but it's a different level of needs.
[00:12:48] It's the creative need. It's the need for space. It's like you said, the ability to have clarity and to focus and to spend more time with your new baby with Miya. All right. And so some of those things that maybe our parents didn't have the option, they never saw that as an option or something that they were even worthy of aspiring to because they were still just trying to keep it all together.
[00:13:10] Babita: I think you're absolutely right. And I think the way you said about that uncertainty, why would you choose it? Because I think definitely for my parents and that generation that came into Britain in the sixties, it was about survival.
[00:13:21] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:13:22] Babita: So when it's about survival, things like creative fulfillment, or following your passion, or romantic relationships, and compatibility, and parenting advice, that just goes out the window.
[00:13:34] We're talking about survival here. We're talking about food on the table. We're talking about earning money. They're getting through. So I think to then look at their children as your mum and dad did with you and mine with me is wow, you have it so good
[00:13:52] and you want more
[00:13:53] Aneta: Right.
[00:13:54] Babita: we've given you so much.
[00:13:56] And now you want more. And it's almost saying, we aren't them. And I think, I'm reminded of Kahlil Gibran, who's a poet who has this incredible poem that says your children are not you, they come through you. It's so true. That I am not them and I can't be them as much as they want us to be them.
[00:14:14] And I think there's a lot of conflict that's bound in that, not only in terms of what we view is fulfillment, but also down to things like identity and belonging. Their perspective is so different to ours. We can never be like them. I was born and brought up in England.
[00:14:32] And I think it's appreciating that and also being okay with not fulfilling what they wanted for us to. Like their expectations are very different to what I wanted for myself. For them, it was about get married. Bricks and mortar, get a good house, get a good car, get a good job, have children. Which actually I suppose makes sense, but it's not that it's more nuanced than that.
[00:14:53] Aneta: What was it like for you being a daughter of immigrants in the UK? I'm always fascinated by immigrant stories. I immigrated, but I was still so small. And so I feel like I was raised one foot in my ethnic culture and one foot in American culture. What was that like for you?
[00:15:10] Babita: I'm one of three girls. I think that the immigrant experience for me, I am still unravelling this. I'm still appreciating it in a different way. I've written about it in books. We grew up above a corner shop, which is quite indicative of the Indian Punjabi experience in the UK.
[00:15:27] There's a lot of immigrants that came in and took on the corner shop because it was a place that you could be your own boss and not face the discrimination that a lot of immigrants were facing on factory floors, for example. But growing up above a corner shop was quite a unique experience because you've got people, customers walking into your front living room.
[00:15:44] Which was the shop floor. And you see it now when you go into any kind of immigrant experience, whether it be Chinese takeaways or Polish supermarkets, the family are immersed in it. You've got the kids sitting on the till, so we were very much part of that whole work ethic.
[00:16:00] The family were enmeshed in home and life. So there wasn't really a separation between that. But in terms of identity, I knew that I had to achieve, because of the sacrifices that they were doing every single day, working five in the morning till ten o'clock at night. So it was very much this unspoken pressure on me and my sisters to make good of our lives.
[00:16:22] I say unspoken, it was quite obvious in some of the things they would say to us. Why have you not got those grades? And why are you not doing that at school? So there was absolutely a pressure on us. But now I think about it and I write about it a lot and it very much influences all my artistic expression now.
[00:16:41] I think that there is a conflict between their values and my values. There is a conflict between Indianness and Britishness. There is a conflict within being British, what that means today. We have a huge immigration debate here in Britain, in Europe, in America. It extends out, right?
[00:17:01] It's almost like for me, immigration goes through cycles and the cycles that my parents faced in the 1960s came up again in this country when we left the European Union, it comes up again at the moment when we see the rise of the far right in and in all of that, I think, for me growing up, it's trying to also question where I belong in that narrative, where I belong in the family dynamic, where I belong in the social dynamic, where I belong in my country, And how I feel, and I think before it was very much focused on what mum and dad thought, or what society thought, or what it meant to be British.
[00:17:37] Now I'm trying to own who I am by myself as an individual. And that is about, I think, trying to explore a sense of belonging, of what it means to me to be British, Indian, but a female, a mother, a journalist, a writer, all of those things. And I think when you grow up with the experience of an expectation I think that there was an undercurrent of unease around growing up as an immigrant child. And I say that because mum and dad were just those survival tactics that create a heightened alertness
[00:18:08] We have to do good and we're not quite sure of our place in here. And we're just trying to figure it out. And that feeds into the neurons in our brains. And how we are conditioned. So everyone calls it, you must have that work ethic that your mum and dad had. But actually, when you think about it, it's probably a heightened state of stress. That propels you to achieve academically.
[00:18:30] So I think it's no coincidence that I then went on to become the job that I did as a journalist in the newsroom because it required all those cutthroat skills to survive. And it was quite a male landscape. It was quite a white male landscape. I suppose seeing mom and dad having to push through was probably what we learned. If that's long winded answer to your question.
[00:18:51] Aneta: I love it. And actually it's interesting because I see parallels again, right? Like I went into banking. I don't know why. And it's same thing. I always felt if I can survive here, if I can be successful, then I've done it. I've done it. All the things my parents wanted.
[00:19:06] I figured it out. And I think that sense of seeking belonging is so common. I still have dreams where I feel left out. Like my friends have left me somewhere. None of these things have actually happened, but I still have dreams of it. And I was like, that sense of belonging
[00:19:21] Babita: Do you think it was looking for approval as well, like the approval from external? Because I think that's probably for me, like just constantly looking for you've done okay.
[00:19:31] Aneta: Yeah. It's the validation. I almost feel like I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, but my parents, grandparents, they've not experienced what I was experiencing growing up in the States. They just didn't. And so there was so much of it trying to figure it out and be successful while still meeting expectations at home and still doing all the things I should be doing as their daughter and granddaughter.
[00:19:55] And so it was the approval and the validation from other people in authority. First, my teachers, then it was whoever else, like any leaders, bosses that I worked for. It's like the constant yeah, you're doing a good job. Yes. You're doing great. And I think like you said, it's that I will outwork anybody.
[00:20:11] Like we will just figure it out because I always felt like I was playing catch up. I never felt like I started at the same level. So I just had to work that much harder to catching up.
[00:20:20] Babita: It's amazing. Yeah. How did you feel then when you didn't get it right? Like, would you take rejection for example, or if you weren't getting that approval, would that then spur you on or?
[00:20:30] Aneta: It did. I think at first it was always hard. I emotionally felt, what happened here? It was really hard. And then you're like, okay that's great. I'm not going to let this happen again. And so it just fuels it. And I think at some point you're just on that hamster wheel and hustling.
[00:20:50] And like you said, when you were at home, you had time to think and you had time to breathe. That happened for me too, where I was like, wait a second. Why am I doing all this? Like, I think when you have that moment of clarity, that inner knowing, when you're quiet enough, and say, what are you doing? Do you even want this?
[00:21:08] That's where you start listening to the voice and exploring it more, and then you start to say no, this isn't Even what I want to do long term. So let me take this energy that I know that I have and focus and let me put it towards something else, but it does require a level of faith, a level of courage, and to really step out of it because when we are in those environments, we do feel like we belong, right?
[00:21:35] Someone's employing you. Someone's paying you for your time and your talents. And so stepping out of that does require you to belong to yourself and to do, create your identity outside of all of those external factors.
[00:21:50] Babita: It's completely, yeah, it's all of that. And I think that external validation it's a dangerous thing to do because when you seek external validation and it's ripped from you or taken away from you or you change jobs or you change partners, you are left with a hole that needs to be healed.
[00:22:05] And if you haven't healed it, then you're like, where am I? Who am I? I actually think. That it was a gift, as painful as it was, extrapolating myself from the system that was the institution of the BBC. I say painful, but it was like, it wasn't painful once I came on board with it.
[00:22:25] When I was resisting it, it was like, this is not comfortable. And then when I went with it, I was like, okay, this is what freedom feels like. This is what liberation feels like. This is what it feels like to not have to have somebody else praise or grade me or tell me if I've done right or wrong.
[00:22:44] I actually have the power to improve myself without anybody saying try this or try that or, and I think if anything, I went from that family environment, which was a strict one, by the way, my parents, did expect a lot of me and my sisters. To go from that to then the BBC where you're a presenter, everyone can see you when you make mistakes.
[00:23:03] Everyone can comment on what you look like, your hair, your makeup, your sound, everything. So it's okay, I'm done with people judging or whatever on me. I'm going to hold my space and actually see what it's like to stand here on my own with nobody judging me or guiding me or critiquing me and just seeing what that feels like.
[00:23:28] It's quite strange if you haven't experienced it before and I'm still getting used to it. It hasn't been that long, but boy, is there opportunity there, which I didn't think would happen. Yeah, blown away by some of the things that are happening.
[00:23:43] Aneta: I love that. And I know one of the things that you've done obviously is you're a new mom and your daughter Mia is just five years old and you also are writing. So tell me more about when you started writing and the types of books that you're writing because for me, I know that when I was able to leave my creativity just really started to come in ways, because I think we have created the space and it did feel like there was more freedom in order to do that. What was it like for you?
[00:24:15] Babita: Can I ask you though, did that happen straight away for you?
[00:24:18] Aneta: No, I needed to detox. It took a while. 2019 I left and then I started writing my book at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021, I think, or 2022. I can't remember. And then I sat on it and got like fearful and confused, and didn't do anything with it.
[00:24:38] And then six months later I was like, okay, get ahold of yourself. You're publishing this and we're getting it out in 2022. There was, you think you do the work and do the internal work and there's still so much stuff there that when you get close and you're like, okay, I'm going to write this book.
[00:24:53] I'm going to publish it. And then you're like, I wrote it, but there's these fears, there's these doubts, there's these questions, all this stuff. And then I just sat on it and I started a second book and I'm sitting on it right now too. So it's the same thing having to, I'm going to out myself and having to get back to it. So no, it wasn't right away. How about for you?
[00:25:11] Babita: It's interesting. I said my first book that got published, which is an adult nonfiction book it was 20, I don't remember, 2019 that came out. That was actually a good experience. I was still at the BBC at the time and I was writing this book. I took a bit of a sabbatical to write it. I enjoyed it. It was the history of the corner shop in Britain.
[00:25:29] It came off the back of a Ted talk I'd done in London, and it came off the back of a BBC one series that I'd done. It was great. And it was. Wonderful to do it part memoir, part social history. I learned a lot through that process. But it wasn't obviously easy writing because I'm a journalist. It works in news.
[00:25:46] It was like, things just get out straight away. The idea that my publisher would be like, yeah, just come back to me when you've done a few chapters. I'm like no, give me a deadline. I need a deadline. You can't just tell me to just go off and write. That's just not going to happen. So that was an interesting introduction into writing from her.
[00:26:04] And then when that happened, life took over. So it meant that COVID happened. I had a baby. I moved from London to Belfast. And my writing took a backseat and actually. I miss the absence of writing, even just journaling. Something was amiss, something, there was a gap, and there was something that wasn't writing, which I think, which is why my creative flow wasn't coming.
[00:26:27] And I was like, but I'm a writer, and I'm calling myself a writer, and I'm judging myself. There's an incredible Irish poet here called Michael Longley, who recently passed away. His body of work is unbelievable. His best friends were Seamus Heaney. He's of that cohort. He said to me recently that, get out of the way of yourself. move out of the way so that whatever wants to come through as a writer, you're able to let it come through. And I didn't quite understand what he meant until now, which is that in the last 18 months, I have published two children's books, which I never thought I'd be doing, there was me doing the Trump inauguration 2015, and now I'm doing a children's book.
[00:27:05] Like, how did that happen? But I got out of the way of myself and actually I just thought, okay, so what do I really want to do? People might laugh, people might judge, people might like, you don't have the skill set, but I'm just going to do it. I'm going to write it. So I did the first children's book.
[00:27:20] The second one is coming out in a month's time. And then I decided I'm going to do a master's in poetry at the Seamus Heaney Center in Northern Ireland. And that was what I did. My mum had died. And I say that adding that in, but it was a big point for me that meant that there was a huge reset button.
[00:27:40] So aside from all the other life stuff happening, when mum died, it was like, okay, this is shaken the core of me and rising from that, it was a sense of, whatever, throw it up in the air. The cards have thrown up in the air, they're never going to land the same way.
[00:27:56] So actually. Why don't I do a master's? Why don't I enroll? I've got this freedom. I've got my redundancy. Let's just go with it. Let's see what happens. And through that process of writing poetry was a cathartic one for grief, but also it was a way of writing in a way I had never been introduced to before in my life.
[00:28:15] It was unique. It was free. It was just like saying whatever you want to write it. And I do believe that when you have these good ideas, these light bulb moments, often when you're going to sleep or whatever, which is why people have notebooks by their bedside, it's like when those light bulb moments come, you follow them and something's going to come out if you don't get in the way.
[00:28:38] If you get in the way, you're going to start thinking, what do I want to do? How am I going to monetize that? How am I going to commercialize that? If you just let it flow, then something comes out. And that's where I am with my writing now. And a lot of the writing that I'm doing at the moment is around Immigration, identity, belonging, all the things that we've talked about coupled with my journey in terms of my spiritual growth, it's all coming together in a way that I didn't think would happen.
[00:29:02] It's addressing some of the crucial issues that we're facing in this country regarding race. So I've still got my kind of journalistic head on. But I've also got a history head on. I'm empowered by writing for children as well. So I'm trying to explore that. I'm suppose I'm being general, but to give you an idea of some of the subject matter I've been working on.
[00:29:22] My father was a child of four when the partition of India happened in 1947. He was essentially a refugee crossing from what is now Pakistan to India. He's now 83, but I don't think he spoke about the partition and the trauma of partition until about five years ago. And understanding his lens.
[00:29:42] Understanding his experience, going back to India, filming a documentary about the partition for the BBC called Dangerous Borders was quite a move forward for me in terms of generational trauma and understanding that and how that comes into the body. But I wanted to write about it and I couldn't find a way to write about it because my mum had died and it was too personal and it was all like, and I was getting in the way of myself and then just a few months ago I sat and I wrote over 20, 000 words on this fiction book that was just flowing and flowing and flowing.
[00:30:16] And it was quite a cathartic, beautiful, painful, emotional experience. And I'd say out of anything I've done, it hasn't been published yet. But out of anything I've done, that's the thing that feels most resonant to who I am today.
[00:30:32] It's with the publisher and you'll know this, it's going back and forth in draft form with the editors and they're looking at it. It will be out there. I'm sure it will be out there in the world, but it's a process that I've allowed to flow. Without overthinking it because when you have that conditioning as we do of get things done and get it approved and let it be a star and let it just, you want to be perfect and actually the imperfections of a writing mean that out of that can come something that's going to find its own way into the world. And I'm, hey, listen, I'm still learning. I don't get it right all the time, but I'm trying to lean into the idea of a natural, more authentic way of writing, which I had never really done before.
[00:31:15] Aneta: I can't wait to read it. It's already in the world. It's just not published yet. So it's already there. What do you mean? I think I know what you mean, but I'm curious, like when you hear let's not get in the way, but allow the work to come through, you allow the creativity, allow the inspiration, whatever it is, do you believe that you're co creating with a higher power? Like when you're doing that.
[00:31:40] Babita: Yeah, I totally believe I'm a vehicle.
[00:31:42] Aneta: Yeah. I think I'm a vessel too. I read my own stuff. I don't know if this happens to you. I read stuff and I go, I don't remember writing that. Like it clearly did and I typed it, but it wasn't like me thinking about something. It was like, and usually the best stuff is when we just get out of the way, like you said.
[00:32:01] Babita: Yeah, and it's almost a rush. So there's almost a bit of a ecstatic state to it. It's coming through you and it's boom. And you don't know what it is. You don't know if it makes sense. You don't know if there's spelling errors in it, you don't know where it's, where is this going? What is it that's come out of me? And I'm not saying it's necessarily good either, it's just coming.
[00:32:20] but you're allowing it to just fall on the page and then your skillset, and I think this is humans is that you can then refine it. And you can fine tune it. And I'm appreciate that, you need space to do this and that's not often possible with our lives, but if we get in the way we almost can interrupt that pouring out.
[00:32:40] We overthinking, or we maybe rush to tell somebody I've got this brilliant idea and you need to get it but it's not quite there or, and then you stop that trajectory of thought coming through.
[00:32:51] And it doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, it's okay, I'm going with this. Wherever it's going to go, I'm going to go on this momentum because it's those special moments. And actually I think it can happen often if you are aware and versed in how to tap into it.
[00:33:09] I'm still learning that. I think I'm at the very beginning stages. I think I get the impression you're more advanced and you're able to channel that a bit more.
[00:33:16] Aneta: It just depends on how, what my spiritual practice is. It's when I am so aligned to, I say God, to creator, to higher source, when I feel so aligned and then the ego gets a backseat and then the creativity is able to flow through. I don't know if you've read Rick Rubin's, The Creative Act, have you?
[00:33:37] Babita: I have been talking to a friend of mine about that.
[00:33:40] Aneta: I love that book so much. He's just so creative in so many ways, but I love his philosophy on creativity and just really, we are, we're co creating and allowing, it to come through us as a vessel, which is just so beautiful. And like you said, don't interrupt it. You could always go back, you can refine it, you can have someone else look through it and see if it makes sense or it doesn't.
[00:33:59] But when you stop the flow and you try to edit it in the process, it's never really good. It's just like you take the heart out of it. You can read something from someone where you can feel like it's very heart driven and heartfelt versus something that feels very cerebral or intellectual.
[00:34:16] It's missing the life. It's missing an essence or something.
[00:34:20] Babita: Yeah. And I suppose it would chime back to the idea that when you're not in the way and it's coming through like that, then you are fulfilling your purpose almost.
[00:34:29] Aneta: Right.
[00:34:30] Babita: But then I still use that a bit. Do you know what your purpose is or are you able to say that clearly now or? Because I'm still trying to figure it out a little bit.
[00:34:42] Aneta: Yeah, I'm here to help people go through on their, remember who they are and what their purpose is and design that life that is in alignment with that. Like I believe that's my purpose and having gone through it myself is just using all of that and really helping people to get unstuck, to dream really big dreams again, to remember why they're here and to help them release all the things that tell them you're not good enough, you don't belong.
[00:35:12] That's a silly idea. Like all that stuff that gets in the way and I tell you when I work with my clients and I'm able to do that in any way through anything that I do. It just makes me cry. Like it just feels so, so good because that's what we're all here for. We're all here to do what you and I are talking about is remember who we are.
[00:35:31] And if something is not in alignment, I just did a post today on LinkedIn where I said, alignment is the new ambition. It just came to me yesterday. And I was like, that's really what we all should be doing is seeking that alignment, to our purpose, to our values, what we can use to our skills, everything, the experiences, everything that we have and use it for good in the world.
[00:35:52] And then the end, it just comes out to love. I just think in the end, we're all just here to love one another and to be able to reflect that back. And when we do, that's when the other person is able to show up as that best version, That's it. It's either love or fear.
[00:36:06] Babita: Exactly. And that, I think that's the parallel, isn't it? That's the polar kind of that we operate in. It's which way we go. And I have been both, I'd say, and the fear, and there is a place for it, by the way, I think, because from that, you can learn and then move forward.
[00:36:20] But I think, if anything doesn't sit right and I call it like your gut instinct, but if something is not quite sitting right and you're second guessing or you're feeling a bit uncomfortable, that is a sign to change it up or to question about the way that we are, have been operating and if it's serving us.
[00:36:37] But it's hard. It's not easy to do that because some people would say it's of a whim, but actually it's our core talking to us.
[00:36:46] Aneta: Yeah. And we don't have practice. I have decades of practice of overachieving, seeking external validation, all of those things. I don't have a lot of practice doing that for myself or trusting and having a faith that is very experiential and not just intellectual. One where you're like, I surrender to this.
[00:37:08] I released the resistance. I turn this. So that's not easy. It's much easier to fool ourselves and to think that we can control things that are absolutely outside of our control.
[00:37:18] Babita: Yeah, absolutely. I wonder if you have met people that have been, what we are going towards, if they've been that from the very beginning, and if so, do they need to then find a place where they're pulling themselves back into kind of human world a bit more, where the fear spectrum is pulling them more into reality? I don't know.
[00:37:38] Aneta: I don't know. I haven't met them yet.
[00:37:40] Babita: Do they exist?
[00:37:42] Aneta: Do they exist? Let us know. I don't know. I really don't. I just think that it's the human experience, for us to go through challenges and to find our way back to what it is that we're supposed to be doing. The goal is to do it before it's too late.
[00:37:57] There's still so many people, Daniel Pink wrote a book called Regret. And then there's the five regrets of the dying. There's so many books talk about regret and I don't want to get there. I don't want to die with so much life left in to me or regretting that I didn't try something. And I think the older I get, maybe we just don't care as much. I think, turning 50 was one of those milestones for me. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't matter as much as it used to. I'm okay with it. Like I'd rather go for something. And even if someone else says it's a failure or it didn't work out exactly I don't spend too much time worrying about that. But I did when I was younger. I sure did.
[00:38:36] Babita: Yeah, same. And I think, Mum's passing was a big eye opener to another dimension, which is everything you've talked about, where life is so fragile, and I don't think I really appreciated that until I had felt that immense sense of loss. And then after that, which was, will be three years ago now, it was a case of whatever.
[00:38:55] I am not going to let the trivial things that have previously bothered me affect me in the same way, that sense of overachieving or achieving for something that I didn't even know what it was is no longer serving me. And how can I bring more joy into my life? My mum and dad have worked incredibly hard their whole lives.
[00:39:15] My mum was often crippled by fear. And I thought just seeing her as she passed on just thinking, mum, what could you have done had you had expended all that fear? Where would you have been? What would your passions have been? And I know her passions were family and I'd like to think that she'd be like, yeah, you know what Babita is doing, trying to get on that right path of, expression, joy, love.
[00:39:41] Because it's such a finite time that we're here and I have to try and push forward, even in the challenges when they come to just think about what the purpose is, because I do believe that we're here for a reason. And it's trying to figure out what that is and then to try and share that. And I'm still trying to figure it out, but I definitely know it's something to do with storytelling or writing or, and my voice, and it's using it a different way now.
[00:40:09] Aneta: Have you ever done the Ikigai exercise?
[00:40:13] I will send it to you. It's a Japanese term and it helps you find your purpose, but it really looks at the elements of what are your strengths? What are the things you absolutely love? What are the things that you're really good at? What does the world need? And then at the culmination of all of those things you find your ikigai because what I know for sure. And I've discovered is nothing is wasted. Like I do not look back on any part of my life and say, I wish that didn't happen. I just don't. And I don't want to trivialize people's experiences because I know people have had horrible things happen. However, use it for good.
[00:40:53] Like, how can you turn every single experience, everything that from you growing up the way you did and your parents experience and being one of three daughters and working at the BBC and being in this masculine energy for so like, all of it is going to give you your unique soul print, like who you are based on all of it.
[00:41:16] And that is where we can find what that purpose is, either a big purpose with a capital P or a bunch of little purposes with a small P. Being a mom is part of your purpose. Being a wife is part of your purpose, being a creator, all of those things. But somehow in the middle, you're going to find it when you do this exercise. It's really awesome. I'll send
[00:41:36] Babita: Oh, it's amazing. That sounds right up my street as we'd say here in England. That sounds great. And I think, I do that. I tally up these experiences and I think anything that I'm doing at the moment, whether it be the writing, it is my unique perspective.
[00:41:48] In my world, in my lens and it's sharing it moving forward. People don't have the same experience. I'm able to talk about equal pay disputes because having gone through it myself. And that sense of how we can empower women, how we can understand, there's a lot of hype about imposter syndrome or, diversity quotas and all of this.
[00:42:06] What does it actually mean in those lived experiences? And I think when you've got a platform like I have done, with the profile I have to be able to share that and raise it and be honest about those experiences, because some people don't have the ability to do that, or the freedom to do that.
[00:42:24] Yeah, I definitely think tapping into that is enriching, but also I'm excited about the things I don't know yet, which are so many, it's a life journey, and I think that potential constantly changes and evolves. Like you said about the book that you're working on at the moment that's doing its thing. It's almost once you do remove yourself from it and then you let it go where is it going to end up? How exciting. Where could its reach be?
[00:42:50] How big do you want to go? How big do you want to dream? Because that's the limitless possibility for it. And I think it's reminding ourselves of all of that.
[00:43:00] Aneta: Yeah. I love that you said limitless possibility because that was my word last year. I pick a word each year and even on my vision board, which is in my office, I stare at it all the time. The word limitless and possibility is like all over it because that's the lens that I'm looking at life through right now it is our time is finite in this lifetime, but what we're able to do with all of that.
[00:43:23] That is infinite. That is the beauty of this experience that we have. So I'm curious for you, if I ask you, what is the meaning of living the width of your life? What does that look like for you?
[00:43:35] Babita: What a question. I think it's, living the width of your life is primarily, I think, for me, being open. Being open, feeling worthy, knowing that you are loved. And I think with those three things, being open, worthy, and loved, the width is as wide and big as you want it to be. Because when you approach things with openness, people, places, situations, challenges, the immediate response to that in the short term is freedom and then in the long term is consequences which are far reaching that you cannot even imagine. So I'd like to say that to live with ways would be to be open.
[00:44:22] Aneta: Beautiful. Babita, I could talk to you for hours
[00:44:25] Babita: Oh, maybe we do that on another plane journey.
[00:44:29] Aneta: yeah, I think we need to meet in person for dinner. I know, so you're in Belfast and I'm here in Cleveland, Ohio, but we will make it happen. It's just one of those things. For folks that are curious about you, about all of your books and want to learn more about you. What is the best way that they can find you? Where can they follow you?
[00:44:45] Babita: Yeah, so I'm on socials as you would expect. I'm on LinkedIn, babita Sharma. I'm on Facebook as well. I have a Facebook page, which is my broadcasting journalist page, which is also Babita Sharma. I'm on Twitter. Babita TV is on there. I'm not on Insta. But I'm probably going to be switching things up a bit, but that's where I'm at the moment, but also just searching my name, you'll find, the Dangerous Borders documentaries on YouTube that I spoke about before, that was an incredible experience, and for people that aren't familiar with partition of India, but also how it resonates in today's language it's a really interesting documentary. And also my books, the corner shop and my children's books. They're all out there on Amazon and all good bookshops. So yeah, have a look online under my name, Babita Sharma. It's all there. And watch this space because I'm excited about the other books that are coming.
[00:45:39] Aneta: I can't wait. We will include all these links. It is always such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:45:45] Babita: Thank you.
[00:45:46] Aneta: Thank you for listening to today's episode. If today's conversation inspired you to dream again, break out of your comfort zones or reflect on what it means to you to live more fully, then please follow this podcast because every week you'll hear more stories from people just like you who took imperfect action towards their goals, created more joy and are living the life that they always dreamt of living.