[00:00:00] Sage: And I had started to already think when I was like 17, 18, what if I start on the anti-aging stuff and health stuff now, the preventative, what can that mean for total life experience that I'm going to be able to have.

And so I saw this guy was looking young. He was ripped in incredible physical shape, and smart. And he was telling me that he attributes most of that to having this superfood smoothie mix twice a day. And I was like, okay, I want all of this. Give it to me.

[00:00:26] Aneta: We often hear people wishing us a long, happy, and healthy life, but what if the length isn't what matters most? What if instead, it's the breadth, depth, and purpose of each day that matters most? Welcome to the Live the Width of Your Life podcast. My name is Aneta Ardelian Kuzma and join me weekly as I interview guests who made changes in their own lives to live more fully with intention. Gratitude and joy. Be prepared to be inspired by their stories of how they shifted their mindset, took courageous action, and designed the life that they always wanted to live.

Welcome back to the Live the Width Of Your Life podcast. Thank you so much for joining me again today. I had such a wonderful conversation. My guest today is Sage Dammers and he is the co-founder CEO and master chocolatier of Addictive Wellness. And he has dedicated his life to holistic wellness and nutrition.

He started as a curious teenager and then immersed himself in ancient herbal systems and nutritional practices, particularly Taoist tonic herbalism Sage has worked with and trained under leading experts around the world in China, Indonesia, Australia, France, Costa Rica, Mexico, and the U S and his company, his passion is evident in the relentless pursuit of the purest and the most potent superfoods and adaptogenic herbs from around the globe.

He is been able to transform these ingredients into healthy versions of indulgences, seemingly blending wellness and pleasure. His commitment to crafting nutritious renditions underscores a mission where well-being and enjoyment intertwine harmoniously.

I love talking to Sage. He discovered his passion at a young age as a teenager. So he talks a little bit about what that story was and when he first had an interaction with someone healthy, supported wellness, and was consuming some things that were good for him. And then just how he grew with his curiosity to learn more about adaptogens and even his quest to create delicious chocolate bars that were sugar-free. They were able to combine this for people who love their chocolate, but also really want to focus on health and wellbeing. And we just talked about the different adaptogens too, and his process and how he's able to source really good quality products from around the world.

I was so fascinated by what it is that he does. And I think you are going to enjoy the episode as well. Take a listen.

Sage, it is such a pleasure to meet you. I'm so excited for our conversation today.

[00:03:08] Sage: Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited as well.

[00:03:10] Aneta: I spent time looking at your Instagram before we started recording today and I'm like, my God, I'm so excited to talk to Sage because he's combined health and wellness, which I'm passionate about.

And chocolate, which I do love is one of my life passions and all kinds of greatness. And so I can't wait to dive in and just learn a little bit more about you and your background and anything that has brought you to this point to create your company's addictive wellness.

[00:03:42] Sage: Wonderful. So I first want to say, thank you so much for having me on. And, I'm looking forward to our conversation. I grew up as. Being a vegetarian, but not necessarily a healthy one many steps in the right direction. My parents in the nineties were raising me on mostly organic foods, doing the best they could with the knowledge available in the semi-pre-internet era where nutrition knowledge was not quite as easy to come by as it is these days.

And I kind of was having basmati rice and tofu five nights a week, and then maybe one night was pizza, and one night was pasta, and there was maybe some lacking nutritional density in what I was doing there. But like I said, they were doing the best they could. They raised me with so many beautiful elements of my childhood.

I'm nothing but grateful. But I always felt that there was something that I wasn't getting, whether it was in school, in academic performance, or sports in physical performance, there was this kind of like one level up that I was never quite able to tap into. And my parents were ahead of the curve in so many ways.

They already had a wellness center when I was a teenager where they had infrared saunas back before anybody was doing this kind of stuff. And there was a gentleman that came in from the local community who made this protein mix, hemp protein, spirulina, chlorella, and some other Western herbs in there, like milk thistle.

And he wanted them to carry it there. And I just started talking to this guy and he was in his mid-forties, but it looked like he could be in his twenties. So I could tell anti-aging wise, he's doing something right. And I was already kind of clued into this concept of anti-aging because I saw people come into the wellness center.

With all kinds of pains and troubles and came out doing so much better, whether it was, back pain, leg pain, hip pain, liver problems, or prostate issues. And I had started to already think when I was like 17, 18, what if I start on the anti-aging stuff and health stuff now, the preventative, what can that mean for total life experience that I'm going to be able to have?

And so I saw this guy was looking young. He was ripped in incredible physical shape, and smart. And he was telling me that he attributes most of that to having this superfood smoothie mix twice a day. And I was like, okay, I want all of this. Give it to me.

I started making these smoothies and the taste wasn't amazing, but I didn't care. I wanted the results. I was able to put my taste buds on hold and I started feeling this amazing clear high after I would make these drinks. I didn't know what I was doing at the time. I would just mix this protein mix with some Tropicana orange juice some frozen berries and maybe a banana or something.

But I was feeling amazing and it like triggered something in my mind to think if this was out there all this time, and I didn't know about it, what else have I been missing out on? There's this whole new world opening up to me here. And so I started researching more into nutrition and superfoods and a little bit later, traditional herbal systems of indigenous cultures.

And the more I would learn, the more new stuff I would try, the more new stuff I would try, the better I would feel. And the better I would feel, the more excited I would get to keep learning more. And it just started this cycle that never stopped. 

[00:06:46] Aneta: Wow.

How old were you Sage?

[00:06:48] Sage: So around that time I was around like 17, 18 years old.

[00:06:51] Aneta: Okay. So you were at a fairly young age where maybe other people aren't quite as aware of their body or, what the impact of nutrition is on your body. So you're advanced, it sounds like based on maybe your parents and the wellness center, but this guy and seeing him as he probably seemed old to you, like in his forties, but looks so young at that age made this big impact on your life.

[00:07:14] Sage: He had the wisdom of an older guy, but the youthful vitality of a younger person, which is just a perfect example of what I was kind of shooting for, because I was only seeing him coming into my parent’s wellness center, older people who had already neglected their health, maybe for some time, and now we're trying to fix it.

And they were, which was amazing. But I had this thought in my mind, what happens if you get on to preventative health practices? Before things start going wrong. And I know this is not a super common thought for a 17 or 18-year-old to be having already thinking about anti-aging but I thought, what could this mean?

 I could have a super long life. I could continue pursuing my passions like surfing until maybe I'm way further along in life. And, also, perhaps I could become a better surfer because of this, because let's say otherwise, maybe my surfing would have peaked at age 30. What if I can make my surfing peak at age 50 and have another 20 years of skill accumulation to get good at something? And so that was a huge inspiration for me.

[00:08:13] Aneta: That is so amazing. So were you working at your parents’ wellness center at the time, or you just were hanging out there?

[00:08:18] Sage: Yeah. I was working there at the time. Just me working the front desk and things like that. Kind of seeing people come and go and hearing their stories and hear things that were working for them and things that weren't working for them.

And it was just a great insight for me because not that many people at that age also spend a lot of time with people 50 plus. And so I got to see, well, what happens if you neglect your health and only try to take care of it later.

[00:08:41] Aneta: Yeah. So you were experimenting, it sounds like, with different ingredients and treating food as medicine.

So medicinal, not necessarily, I want a smoothie that tastes like chocolate, but you wanted something that tasted fairly good but also gave you the benefits. So where did that experimentation lead?

[00:09:00] Sage: Well, in the initial stages, I didn't care what it tasted like. I just wanted to feel as good as possible. And I was noticing huge differences in my physical energy and endurance, mental performance, the ability to focus in school.

And then eventually you can only do something like this for so long before you want to share it with other people. Now, of course, people who are in like later parts of high school and getting into college are not super health-motivated most of the time. So I was cautious. I didn't want to lose friendships because I'm this crazy health evangelist trying to push my hemp smoothies on other people.

So I was reserved about it, but I was hoping that one day I could get to share this with people because it's kind of like the hero's journey. You go out, you slay your dragon. And then you come back and you want to share the accumulated knowledge and wisdom with other people in your community.

The problem was I knew the community wasn't ready, but eventually, I would go on a surf trip with friends. And we went to Costa Rica, three friends of mine from college, and I would go out and I would surf for six hours. I'd be feeling amazing. And they would come in after two hours and be ready to eat and have rest.

And to kind of take it easy. And they saw me with my little magic bullet blender. Kind of making these drinks quietly in the corner of the room and not saying anything about it, but they started kind of getting a little curious, say, hey, what is that? Can you maybe make me one of those before we go back out in the water?

And this is kind of the big moment I've been waiting for. I was so excited to finally share this with them. The problem was these smoothies tasted like absolute dirt. They were so gnarly-tasting that these guys couldn't get it down.

[00:10:33] Aneta: What was in them?

[00:10:34] Sage: It was this hemp protein mix, which had a bunch of other herbs in there.

I was also putting, at the same time, I was putting cacao and maca and goji berries and more hemp seeds and just kind of a random mix of local fruits that I was able to get my hands on there. It was rough, and also I was putting Shilajit in there, which will make the flavor of anything quite aggressive, it's a Himalayan mineral pitch with a very powerful distinctive flavor to it.

And so they weren't able to handle this. So it gave me pause and I had to think, okay, if I'm going to share this and have a long-term beneficial impact beyond just myself, I have to figure out how to make all these ingredients that I'm so excited about. It tastes so good that people are going to consume the things I make just because they taste amazing.

And the fact that they're super healthy is just going to be an afterthought. That was the vision that I had in my mind. I had been learning more and more about cacao as a real elite superfood, and it was unique in the way that I observed it because most foods are either in the world, the foods that don't taste very good, but they're considered to be healthy food.

So people eat them anyway, on the other end of the spectrum, you have foods that taste great, but they're generally not going to be that good for you. And there's not a whole lot that bridges that gap until you've maybe cultivated a healthier palate. But for most people, you're either eating healthy or you're enjoying your food and there's not much crossover, but I saw cacao as a superfood.

And that was bizarre to me at first, because wait, this is like the Hershey's hot cocoa that I was drinking as a kid. I definitely, that wasn't healthy. What is this cacao powder? And I learned that when it's in its purest form, it can be so incredible. It's the highest natural source of magnesium.

It's very high in chromium, the highest natural source of antioxidants. And then it contains all these amazing neurotransmitter compounds like phenylethylamine and anandamide and theobromine that influence the way your thoughts are happening in your mind. And so this to me was like, wow, if you have this Grand Canyon of a gap between healthy food and tasty food, this is something that kind of crosses that gap a little bit.

You can give a person who has zero interest in health, something chocolate flavored, and they're going to be kind of open to it. And you can give cacao to a person who is into health and they're going to enjoy that as well.

And so I thought if I can figure out how to make a truly pure and healthy cacao something, whether it's a drink or an actual chocolate, this could be like the gateway to share everything that I'm so passionate about.

That was the initial step and got me into initially just a hobby of chocolate making and progressively developing and refining it over the years, incorporating these different herbs that combined so well with chocolate, because so many of these traditional herbal systems, have herbs in them that have very bitter flavors to them.

And the Western world. We're very not accustomed to bitter flavors in our food for the most part, the bitter flavors or the medicinal compounds in the food. And we bred those out and then we sell the medicine back as pharmaceuticals. It's another wild story for another day.

But the idea is that people aren't used to bitter flavors so much. And the one bitter flavor that people have accepted randomly just so happens to be chocolate. And so I found that I could camouflage a lot of the bitter flavors of these herbal compounds into chocolate and people would be none the wiser and they would enjoy it. So it was a great gateway but also kind of a Trojan horse.

[00:13:59] Aneta: And what kind of chocolate do you use? Do you use like really good source chocolate? Do you use dark chocolate? Do you combine different flavors of chocolates? What is it?

[00:14:09] Sage: For me, if I'm doing something and putting my whole life and passion into it, I gotta have it be the best. We have a limited amount of time and each day, a little bit amount of time in your lifetime. So if I'm going to do it, I want it to be awesome. So the cacao that we use is a very rare variety. It's an heirloom Arriba Nacional is the name of the variety and it's not grown on farms.

It's not grown on plantations in these mono-crop rows that are protected by fences and farmers and scarecrows. It's grown in the wild. This is wild harvested cacao, which to me is so special because it's going to take a different kind of genetic and epigenetic robustness of a plant to survive out there in the wild where everything kind of wants to kill you and take the resources from you as compared to something growing in a highly protected mono-crop farm.

There is an extra level of vitality and vigor there not to mention that you're getting nutrients from wild soil, wild volcanic soil. It's super mineral rich as compared to soil that is over-farmed and kind of becoming devoid of minerals. So this brings with it a nutritional robustness, also an amazing flavor and smoothness and to me, it just makes every bite of chocolate all the more exciting when you think about the kind of where it comes from.

[00:15:25] Aneta: Wow, and do you primarily get the wild cacao from any particular countries or regions? How did you find the source of these, the cacaos that's grown wild?

[00:15:37] Sage: What we use comes from Ecuador. Having the amazing fortune to grow up in and around the health world from a pretty young age, I got to make some amazing contacts both while in the U.S. and also through my travels internationally and happened to connect with a gentleman who specializes in procuring in Ecuador these wild cacao pods from these wild growing heirloom trees that are often ranging from like 40 to 80 years old.

And so it's just an incredible grace and good fortune that I had. I have access to this.

[00:16:11] Aneta: That's so amazing. Were you self-taught or did you end up going to school and studying more about adaptogens just to be able to identify? What ingredients should be used for specific health needs?

[00:16:25] Sage: I didn't have any formal education in that regard. It was a combination of being self-taught and then seeking out the experts in the fields. As I saw it, there wasn't a school or a university that I could go to where I could learn about cacao and ashwagandha and astragalus and Siberian ginseng.

It's just maybe one day in the future, that would be awesome to have a school where you can teach these kinds of things. It doesn't exist yet. So it was a matter of researching, reading, and seeking out people who knew way more than I did and figuring out ways to spend lots of time with them, pick their brains, and download as much as I could.

[00:17:02] Aneta: That's so amazing. So tell me about the different types of adaptogens that you use and what are some of the functions that you are helping people with? I know on the website and Instagram some people want some more focus and clarity. There are some male and female hormones just to name a few, but like, what are some of the most popular things that people are looking for right now?

[00:17:25] Sage: When you look at most chocolate products, they're in different flavors, right? You've got a ginger chocolate, an orange chocolate, a mint chocolate, an almond, et cetera. I decided to go a different way with things because. I am so passionate about these adaptogenic herbs. I wanted them to be a feature point of what's going on here.

I wanted this to be the opening of a gateway for people to understand and learn about these herbs and maybe even consume them on their own after having the chocolate. So I wanted to create different functional chocolates where each chocolate has a different formulation of herbs that is geared towards a particular function.

So people can come into this, not necessarily thinking, I have a craving for ginger right now. I want a mint chocolate, but thinking I need more energy in my life, or I've been burning the candle at both ends. I'm a bit burned out and I need to replenish my deep energy reserves. I need to work on fortifying my immunity, or maybe I need to chill out.

Day to life is just too stressful. I need to find a way to build my stress resilience so that even if I can't change what's happening outside of me, I'm a little bit more stable internally. So we have a line right now of eight different chocolates that each have a different functional goal to them.

Interestingly, the popularity of each one has ebbed and flowed over time. In the early years, the energy was the most popular. And then the world seemed to have gotten around like 2016, a little more stressful for everybody. And then tranquility shot up to the top and became the number one. And then there are different times of year right now, or in February and so Valentine's day, people think a lot more about love chocolate.

And so it ebbs and flows. And it's an interesting way to kind of have your pulse on what the world is feeling and needing to see which chocolate is the most popular at any given time.

[00:19:15] Aneta: I love that you said instead of seeking the flavor, you're going to seek something else and allow the herbs to adaptogens to be forward is when the main ingredients. So if someone were curious and wanting to try something of course we'd want them to get one of everything, but are there any that you would say would be a good entry point? Something that you think anybody who's just maybe dipping their toe into the space would enjoy

[00:19:41] Sage: if I had to give one to everybody I just pick one. And then everybody gets this, I think I would say, tranquility, because as I mentioned, the stressors in our lives, no matter how many technological solutions arise, should make our lives easier and have more flow in them. It just seems to get more stressful. And unless you're actively doing something about it to help.

So, I would say tranquility allows people to get out of the fight-or-flight response. You have herbs in there, like a very powerful rishi mushroom extract, which is traditionally called the herb of immortality and spiritual potency. It was the most sought-after substance by Taoist monks and hermits for thousands of years.

You have Ashwagandha in there. You have also Hoshu Wu, which helps to replenish your core adrenal reserves and helps to put you in more of a Yin mode, which is like your recharge mode rather than always expending your energy. And so I would give that one to everybody, but the other thing I like about having the functions is that it kind of forces people to tap in and be a little more body aware and see what I need right now.

Not just what am I psychologically craving flavor-wise, perhaps but what. Does my body need and have a little bit more awareness in that regard? So I would first say, try to listen to your body a little bit to find some silent space and see what your body needs after considering the different options.

But if there's a lot of static noise for you right now, go with tranquility. Hopefully, that provides the stillness and clarity that you need to then tap in and figure out which one's going to be the best fit.

[00:21:11] Aneta: That's such great advice. So how do you deal with dosage? You sell these, are they chocolate bars, like a full bar? Typically.

[00:21:19] Sage: Yeah. So we sell them as full bars and then we also sell the herbs as individual extracts if somebody likes to take that on its own and dive in deep with one individual.

[00:21:27] Aneta: And then do people kind of decide how much they want to take based on how they're feeling or is there a recommended dosage? So people aren't consuming an entire chocolate bar when maybe they don't need the whole thing.

[00:21:41] Sage: Well we do offer a recommended dosage with each one. But ultimately there is going to be some self-experimentation required because across a wide population of great genetic diversity and different diversity of health and so many other factors, whether it's your body mass, your current nutritional status, your availability of digestive enzymes, and hydrochloric acid.

Whether you're taking it on an empty stomach or with a full stomach, there are so many factors that go into determining the perfect dosage for any given individual. So we can guide you certainly towards the kind of the population average of what's going to be the best but to fine tune you may need to experiment a little bit.

[00:22:21] Aneta: And do you mind going through the other ones? So I'm curious, we talked about tranquility and some of the ingredients. I know you said Valentine's Day, there's a love of chocolate. So I'm assuming that's tied to female and male hormones. So tell me a little bit more about that one and maybe some of the other ones as well.

[00:22:38] Sage: Sure. So in there, we have an aphrodisiac herb that many people are familiar with these days, maca. It's the gelatinized form of maca though because raw maca kind of was very popularized for quite a while, I would say early two thousand to maybe even just a couple of years ago. But that's not how it was traditionally consumed.

Normally it undergoes some heat processing to break down a lot of the starches in there to make it much easier to digest because the raw maca is a lot harder on the digestion. So it can often lead to, well, one, it's not as potent because you're not going to absorb it as well, but it can also lead to some flatulence, which is not a good element of an aphrodisiac chocolate, right?

It's not going towards our goal of a romantic evening. Then we have Cistanche which is a Chinese herb. It was the favorite herb of Genghis Khan and it doesn't go make you eliminate a huge chunk of the world's population, but it does bring up sexual vigor and vitality and it helps to bring the blood flow to the lower areas of the body where you're going to need it for a wonderful romantic experience.

And it's very invigorating and energizing as well. Then we also go in a different direction with some of the herbs in there. We have reishi mushroom, which I briefly alluded to earlier with the tranquility chocolate because if you are stressed and you're caught up in your head, this is not going to be conducive to a great romantic experience.

You want something that's going to help you feel more at peace and get you out of your head and into your body, out of thinking, and just into a place of feeling to be present with your partner. Then we have Hoshu Wu, and this is a restorative tonic. So for guys, if you're having too wild of a time in this department, you can be depleting yourself.

And in the Chinese system, they would say you're depleting your Jing. It's like your reserve savings account of energy. This helps to replenish that. And also it has been a renowned sex tonic in that system of Taoist and Chinese tonic herbs for thousands of years. Then to leave China, we go over to Asia and we have black ginger.

This is kind of like a distant cousin of the ginger that everybody's familiar with, but it has remarkable abilities for improving energy and endurance, and also improving circulation. So a lot of people will think of male reproductive health, of course, but also for women. Circulation is huge for sensitivity.

So this is kind of a formulation that we've crafted here to try to address things from as many angles as possible to allow for the perfect romantic evening.

[00:25:09] Aneta: I love it. And I love how you're bringing in elements from different parts of the world. So you said you worked with experts from many different countries.

I think you've talked about China, Indonesia, Australia, France, Costa Rica, Mexico, and some of the U. S. as well. What were some of your biggest surprises in terms of, I'm not sure if you went in with any sort of assumptions around the different adaptogens or how they're used, but any surprises from the different countries and how they're using these in maybe more traditional forms.

[00:25:41] Sage: Oh, that's a great question. I would say it's amazing that in some parts that these herbs they grow and they're not even recognized and used, in some cases, often because the wisdom has been forgotten from the old times in modernization of a lot of these parts of the world. On the other hand, it's also amazing to see in some places the reverence with which these herbs are held.

For example, when I was in China, you could be going down a main street in a city and look over and there's a whole herbal emporium where you're seeing beautiful examples of quarter steps and Rishi displayed with pride in the windows as absolute treasures. So that was super cool. It was kind of like, oh, I like this a lot.

I can get comfortable here. And so that was very cool. And, of course, in Europe, it's an example of one of those places where a lot of the old ways of European folk herbalism have faded away. There's a renaissance happening with this stuff all around the world. So it's also exciting to see that more and more people are getting access to things these days that you would never have had access to in the old days.

And even up to the eighties in China, a lot of the herbs, for example, cordyceps, you couldn't get, it was only wild harvested cordyceps that cost tens of thousands of dollars. And now we can grow it. via fermentation in a way that makes it accessible to everybody.

So many of these herbs that you talk about in the Dallas system, for example, whether it's tremella mushroom or cordyceps were considered to be almost exclusively for royalty how rare they were. And so we're incredibly blessed to live in this current time where we not only have access to these, but we have access to all of them.

Like one of our bars of chocolate, the greatest superfood of South America, the most amazing Ayurvedic prana tonic, the most amazing energy tonic from China, and something from Thailand. And you can have a chaga mushroom from Russia. Nobody, no Pharaoh in their wildest dreams could have access to all of these things in one bite. So we have, it's a crazy world we live in today, but we have so much to be grateful for.

[00:27:51] Aneta: Wow. And where do you produce all these? Do you produce them on-site here in the States or do you produce them somewhere else? I'm just imagining the logistics of bringing all of the different adaptogens in from all over the world.

[00:28:04] Sage: Certain production elements happen abroad. So for example, we're growing Rishi mushrooms in the Dhabi mountains. So instead of shipping the whole mushrooms to the U S and doing the extractions of them here, the result of which is that they become a powder, highly concentrated form that's done there before it's shipped because that's the most efficient way if you can get it.

Concentrated pretty close to the source. Then what you're shipping is going to have the least possible weight and mass to it, but concentrating all that benefit in there to make it affordable and feasible for somebody on the opposite side of the world.

So when the mushroom is grown, then it goes through alcohol extraction, water extraction, and spray drying into the powder. Then it's combined with the spores that were originally taken from the mushroom. So you get the full spectrum of everything this mushroom has to offer. And that comes to us. And then we have our chocolate factory in Los Angeles. And so that's where all of our chocolate is made.

And that's where the mushroom comes to meet the chocolate for the first time.

[00:29:04] Aneta: Sage, I want to pause because it's so interesting. We started the conversation and you're talking about being this curious 17-year-old who is experimenting with making some smoothies. And I don't know how old you are, but just in a short amount of time, it seems like you've been able to create this business, something that you love, and figure out just how to pull the right ingredients together to produce it, to manufacture it, to get it into the hands of people. Do you just sometimes pinch yourself and say, wow, like I did pretty good here.

[00:29:40] Sage: I don't think I let myself do it often. I maybe should a little bit more often.

[00:29:45] Aneta: Yes, you should.

[00:29:47] Sage: I think it's the drive that got me to do it in the first place, that keeps me forward-looking and building new goals to keep challenging myself and do it better.

But there are moments where it's like, this is pretty awesome what I get to do. I do have a lot of gratitude. And maybe that's not exactly the right word to fully encompass the emotion, but I would say a combination of awe and gratitude for the fact that I kind of get to be Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory, which is beyond any child's wildest dream. So I'm very blessed in many ways.

[00:30:18] Aneta: And you're doing good things with that chocolate too. So what was the hardest part about figuring out this entire process and what did you think was going to be hard and actually? It all kind of came together maybe a little bit easier than you expected.

[00:30:33] Sage: There have been many challenges along the way, whether it's formulating the chocolate, or figuring out how to make chocolate taste good. That's sugar-free. So it's not going to mess with people's sugar-sensitive conditions.

Whether it's dealing with learning how to handle importing ingredients through customs from around the world which can be a nightmare sometimes, or whether it's logistics of getting meltable chocolate across the country when it's 100 plus degrees in the summer and arriving at the person's doorstep in perfect condition. I would say the biggest triumph though was working out how to make it sugar-free and I can't take all the credit for it because my girlfriend at the time, who was still my girlfriend and my business partner inspired me early on in our relationship to believe that I could early on, I was doing it with raw honey, which was nice.

But even with that, you hit a certain point. It's like, okay, that's too much sugar. I need to back off here. You can only go so far. I wanted ideally to remove that obstacle. So people are free to enjoy more chocolate without having to hit that sugar ceiling.

And so she inspired me that you got to keep pushing. You have to keep experimenting. Don't just rest on the laurels of this formulation that you've developed. That is pretty darn good, but you can do better. And she was a big part of the inspiration for making the company as well because she was a total chocoholic. And as soon as I figured out how to make it with that sugar, she was eating it nonstop.

And I had to start buying in larger and larger quantities, the ingredients to keep her satisfied and keep making enough chocolate for her. I remember at the time, the business I was doing before this was setting up elixir bars in five-star hotels, making amazing herbal drinks that tasted drinks that should not be in hotels in Paris and Sydney, and I was going off to do a job in Paris for a few weeks.

And I thought, okay, I'll make enough chocolate to keep her happy while I'm away. And then she calls me one week into the trip saying you need to come back. The chocolate's all gone. I miss you, but I also miss the chocolate. I thought, dang, okay, I got to figure out a better plan for the next time I'm traveling somewhere.

So a few months later, I was going to be going to China for a while and then to Australia. And I thought, okay, I have a plan. I am going to make her chocolate. That should in my mind, be enough to last her the entire time that I'm away. But I'm also going to put some hidden packages of chocolate elsewhere in the refrigerator or other places in the house.

I found a box of frozen brown rice in her freezer that looked like it hadn't been opened in a while. And I thought, okay, I'm going to stuff some in here. So every week when she calls saying she runs out, I'm going to say, just go check this one other place. The problem was it kind of backfired. She went and did a total reorganization of the whole house.

Two days after I left and called me, did you hide chocolate in the freezer, in the brown rice box,

[00:33:21] Aneta: She found them.

[00:33:22] Sage: Yeah. But that was a huge element of driving me towards what we're doing now.

[00:33:27] Aneta: That's amazing. And I don't think we talked about the fact that these are sugar-free too, which is wonderful. And so they taste good and they're sugar-free so people can have more and not have to worry about the sugar factor either for health reasons or just don't want to consume a lot of sugar. So what's next you've done an amazing job here. What's next? Anything you can share in terms of the expansion of the business or new products that you're excited to talk about?

[00:33:52] Sage: Yeah, we have a reformulation of the chocolates coming out shortly. Depending on when people hear this, it may have happened or it may be shortly happening. I can't say yet exactly what it is, but they're going to be healthier than ever, even more than they are now. And they're going to taste better than ever, which I'm excited about because I want to continue expanding the breadth of people that we can reach with a certain flavor of chocolate.

You can reach a certain group. And as you improve the flavor, I think you can reach or reach a wider group and have a wider beneficial impact. So that's very exciting for me. We're continuing to expand our offering of individual herbal ingredients. So that also gets me very excited to be able to introduce people to these herbs one-on-one.

Because it's fun and great to have them in chocolate. But I love every one of these herbs individually as well. And I want to share them individually with others so that they can get to know that individual herb. It might sound a little strange. I don't know if I'm perfectly explaining it, but it's like if you have a great friend who's like, wow, what a cool person, what an awesome dynamic individual. I want all my friends to meet this friend.

And so that's how I feel about each of these herbs. So I get excited about all areas of the business and I enjoy having kind of multiple elements of the business so that it just creates such a diverse experience for me and allows me to deliver health in different ways to various people.

 It also shields you against, okay, if things aren't working well in one area, at least you have other areas that are still pretty awesome.

[00:35:23] Aneta: Yeah, that's good. Well, I am going to get one of each chocolate. I think I need to try all of them. So I'm super excited. So if people wanted to find all of your products to learn more about your company, what would be the best way that they can do so?

[00:35:39] Sage: They can find us at addictivewellness.com. And that's where you'll see all of our products and lots of educational information. And also if they Are interested in some of the things that we've talked about today and just want to continue pursuing education in this regard.

We have a YouTube channel that we post on multiple times a week, trying to share as much educational information as possible. And I would also like to set up a discount code for all of your listeners. Maybe we can make it width, WIDTH and that will get them a discount on their order. So make it a little easier for them to enjoy that first bite of chocolate.

[00:36:12] Aneta: Thank you, Sage. I'm so excited to share that with my community. We'll include all the details in the show notes. I'm so happy for you. I mean, this is just amazing. I can tell how passionate you are and you're doing something amazing and so good.

And I love that it's global and that you're connecting all of this wisdom passed down through the generations and the years, sharing the plants, the herbs that have just been healers for so many years, but, doing it in a way where it's it's easy for us to consume here in the Western world.

And I do ask a question of everybody, which is what does it mean to you to live the width of your life?

[00:36:52] Sage: I would interpret this in two ways. One is to work on your health, to maximize your health span because once your health starts to decline, it limits. The kind of things that you can do to enjoy what you're doing and the amazing life experience you can have.

As I mentioned earlier, I was thinking about this when I was a teenager thinking, if I start to work on my health now, this can build, like you say, the width of my life and allow me to just do awesome stuff. Whatever I happen to be inspired by at the moment or at that stage of my life for potentially much longer.

And I would also say. Take on challenges in various and new areas of my life without needing to see from the beginning, what the solution is going to be. This business area and the chocolate and health area. That's kind of one section of my life, but I also have other areas of passion outside that as well, that are not necessarily business related, but just kind of personal passions that I dive into as an amateur and just take it all on and I don't know how I'm going to get good at it.

I'll just get in there, and get my feet wet. Like when you're surfing, you're at the beach and you can't tell, is it going to be a good day to go out surfing? You get in the water and it always ends up being better than if you had just stayed on the beach and just watched it.

So get out there, get in amongst it, and take on challenges. Of course, if somebody has to be careful about challenges to take on because they've got a family to feed them, they got to be super responsible, a hundred percent respect that, but take on as many challenges and adventures as you can to the level of your ability with where you are in life.

[00:38:22] Aneta: Thank you so much, Sage. I love that answer and continue success to you. And I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you for your time.

[00:38:31] Sage: Thank you.

[00:38:32] Aneta: Thank you for listening to today's episode. If today's conversation inspired you to dream again, break out of your comfort zones, or reflect on what it means to you to live more fully, then please follow this podcast because every week you'll hear more stories from people just like you who took imperfect action towards their goals, created more joy and are living the life that they always dreamt of living.

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