Episode 22 transcript: Why it's easier to connect the dots looking backward with Matt Katz

 Episode 22: Why it's easier to connect the dots looking backward with Matt Katz

Podcast Introduction:

Matt: There are so many factors, and I believe it all comes together as it's supposed to come together. So it's not just one or the other, it's not just nature, it's not just nurture. It's a combination, but it's actually part of a bigger design. Whether you want to call God's design or the universe's design, whatever it is, it's all happening the way it's supposed to. When I was younger, I didn't understand that, so I would push and try to get something. And it was knocking my head against the wall and not understand why I wasn't going anywhere. But now I let this just sort of unfold. 

Aneta: We often hear people wishing us a long, happy, and healthy life. But what if the length isn't what matters most? What if instead? It's the breath, depth, and purpose of each day that matters most. Welcome to the Live The Width of Your Life Podcast. My name is Aneta Ardelian Kuzma, and join me weekly as I interview guests who made changes in their own lives to live more fully with intention, gratitude, and joy be prepared to be inspired by their stories of how they shifted their mindset, took courageous action and designed the life that they always wanted to live. 

Aneta: Today's guest is Matt Katz. He is the CEO of Cornerstone Design and Renovation. And, after years of working in retail massage therapy, Matt found his true passion. He combines his love for architecture, design, and historical preservation to renovate and bring back to life homes in his city. He is a lifelong seeker of spirituality, energy modalities, and continuous growth and improvement. We cover so many topics in this episode. We talk about his career and how it wasn't a straight line. How he went from retail to massage therapy to doing what he does today, so lovingly and well. Talks about finding his biological family just a few years ago in his forties, his point of view around nature versus nurture, and what he's discovered about himself having met his biological family.

Aneta: He also talks about his diagnosis with a d d in college or thereafter, and how that impacted the way he saw himself and some of the things he was struggling with, but also how he views it as a blessing today for the current line of work that he's doing. And then finally, just his love for meditation and energy work and how it has helped him with his optimal health. So stick around and check out the rest of the episode.

Interview:

Aneta: Hi Matt. Thanks so much for joining me today. 

Matt: Hi, Aneta. Of course. It's my pleasure. 

Aneta: It's so exciting to have you on the show, and I wanted to say happy birthday. I know you celebrated your birthday this weekend. How are you feeling?

Matt: I'm feeling great. I was 51 and it's a number so.

Aneta: It made me think today when we were starting this recording that I think we met when we were 18 or 19 years old and now at 51. And it's so amazing that after all these years so many of us from school that went to school together still remain friends.

Matt: Yeah. Isn't it wild? 

Aneta: Yeah, exactly. And I always feel even though things happen and life changes, there's still the essence of who that person is whenever I talk to you, or I talk to someone else that I met way back in the day. 

Matt: I definitely think that the more we change and evolve, the more we also have that same baseline and that same energy.

Aneta: Yeah, exactly. Well, for those that don't know you as well as I do, I would love for you to just spend a couple of minutes and just kind of talk about your background and the journey that brought you to where you are today. 

Matt: Okay. well, I guess I'll start off where, where I am today, I renovate houses. I have a business called Cornerstone Design and Renovation. And it's funny, every time someone asks me what do I do for a career? I kind of laugh because I have to backtrack and I go back to during college and after college, I was in retail and I did that for years. But within sort of a gamut of things. I did so many things under that umbrella, and then I went into massage therapy and then I went into teaching and then I had a period of time where I didn't work and I was kind of helping out with my parent’s house after they passed away. And then I got into this. So I kind of feel I have to give this background of this big spectrum of things I've kind of done in my life. So, yeah, where I am right now is I'm renovating houses. And it's something I feel very passionate about. I've always been interested in architecture. Even in college, I got a degree in zoology, so I have a science degree that's basic anatomy and physiology. But on the side, I was taking art classes and I must have taken three or four architecture classes. Did not all of them go to anything to my father's chagrin? He would ask me where does that architecture class going. I'm, it's an elective, dad, don't worry about it. But I'd already taken care of my electives, that's how much I loved it. So, when's the next time I'm going to be able to study this? After I get out of college, I'm going to have a career and I'm going to be whatever. So, it is something I felt passionate about, even as a kid before I was able to drive and go out on my own in a car somewhere. My parents would go out to run errands or something and they'd come home and I'd be up on the roof fixing a weather vein or painting shutters. And they were, who are you? What are you doing? So, going into college, all of that went on off to the side, onto a back burner. And, all these years later, I finally had the opportunity financially to take a chance. And so this is what I got into. My first venture was not lucrative. I did not make money, but it was a great learning opportunity for me. So, going forward I have all this knowledge going into my future projects.

Aneta: I've seen the work that you do and it is so stunning, and I love that. You are very focused on choosing homes that have good bones in your neighborhood, so you're helping to kind of restore homes on streets where there might be other homes that look great, and this one for some reason has not been taken care of or people were unable to do it. Tell us a little bit more about, how you choose the homes that you do and how this is tied to your passion and your values. Because I know it's beyond just making the money, which of course is important in a business, but you also, I think have certain parameters that you look at when you select these homes.

Matt: For sure. I would say it's a combination of things. Obviously, it takes some hunting and I'm drawn to houses that are unique. Architecturally. But then also the other category they have to fall into unfortunately is that they've been pretty severely neglected because they're the houses that no one else is going to want to take.

Matt: A family with two kids is not going to want to take a 3,600 square foot house and re-plaster, rewire gut bathrooms, and gut kitchens, and put $200,000 into it. But that's where I step in and I take over that kind of house. But also at the same time, it happens organically. It's not necessarily a 100% cerebral textbook thing where I have to check, check, check, check. Certain checks have to be marked off, but then I also have to step in front of the house or step into the house and say, wow, this is it. It's just a feeling for sure. 

Aneta: I know. And you have two that you're working on currently?

Matt: Yes. I have a single-family home that was built in 1918 or, 1917, sorry. And that I want to get into the whole story. It's a very sad story about the family. There was a death in the family and illnesses and the previous owner was not able to take care of the house.

Matt: He wanted to sell it and take the money and find an apartment and get himself sold in basically. So, I walked into this house that had holes in the ceiling, leaking roofs, toilets that had busted plaster moldings that were falling off a kitchen from 1984. And the cupboards, the doors were falling off and hanging and the appliances didn't work. And, yeah, so that's where I started. I took that and I've got in the bathrooms and the kitchens and just reinventing it and bringing it back to a bit of that 19 nostalgia. 

Matt: As far as the aesthetics, I'm making it more functional for the modern family, because no one these days has a call button in their dining rooms that they press on the floor to have your maid come in and bring you your dinner with the swinging door. Now we all cook for ourselves and everyone ends up in the kitchen. So I do things taking out the swinging door, and widening the entrance so people can come in and out. Because you entertained. And how often do people end up in your kitchen with a glass of wine talking to you while you're preparing food for everyone?

Aneta: That's so interesting because I hadn't even actually thought about that. And I've seen the homes, the first one that you worked on, which was just so beautiful and I mean, ready for someone to just take the keys and move right in down to the landscaping 

Matt: Yeah, that's the whole point.

Aneta: every detail. But what are some of these other things that, because these homes are from the 1920s or turn to the century, are some of the other things that are just obsolete that we necessarily need anymore that maybe we wouldn't even be aware of? 

Matt: Interesting. Well, I said the swinging doors, call buttons. I can't tell you how many houses in these old neighborhoods have maid’s quarters, even the duplex I'm working on for my second project. I didn't learn until recently, that even people that rented and lived in duplexes had people living on the third floor. and would have, I mean, basically, it was an exchange of having a place, to live and sleep. For the service of tidying up or maybe nannying or something. So, I mean, think about yourself living in an apartment and having someone that would come in and help you take care of your space. So that doesn't happen anymore. So a lot of these old houses have maid's quarters and how do you repurpose the maid's quarters?

Matt: In our own house, Steve and I, we have two maid's bedrooms and they're our offices now, and they're set back from the rest of the house. So they're not obsolete, they're just repurposed. But the first house I worked on, there was a whole section of the house that had a staircase that went from a suite upstairs that was a little bedroom and a little bathroom, and off of a nursery. So that was the maid's, sleeping quarters, and she would help take care of the baby. But then she would go down a staircase into the kitchen for, cooking for the family. And then there's another staircase down into the basement for laundry. So she was never to be seen, and she just stayed in this whole section of the house on three different floors and would hop out. But back then you couldn't, have them forbid you to see something that was cleaning your house or taking care of the baby. So that house, I actually took out the staircase and turned it into usable utility space. It opened up the kitchen, it added storage to the second floor. So we don't function that. 

Aneta: No. Things you don't even consider unless you look at one of those homes. That's so interesting. So you said that you were interested in art and interested in architecture classes and things that were very different than what you were studying. And I'm assuming, were you pre-med with zoology? Is that what you were thinking you were going to do or something in the. 

Matt: I think I was already aware going in that I wasn't the best study person to sit down and really hit the books hard. So I thought, well, maybe, maybe being a doctor's not up my alley, but maybe I can go to physical therapy. That's where I was looking for that. Yeah. But then when I finished my degree, that was such a huge challenge. Because during the course of my college career, I was diagnosed with a d d, kind of before everyone was diagnosed with a d d it seems like. It's pretty commonly diagnosed these days, but, after I finished I really don't want to go back to school right now.

Matt: So that's when I got into, I had been working part-time in retail, at Abercrombie and, hopefully, no one watching this has seen the documentary ever growing. It's pretty scandalous. So I was already in that during college. So when I finished my degree, I said, listen, I'm just going to roll with this for a while and then I'll see where it takes me. 

Aneta: Mm-hmm. So and so you were in retail for a bit and then it's interesting because then it sounds like you brought in some of the stuff you studied at school because you made another shift, right? Where you became more interested in energy work and physiology. So how long after retail did you decide to make another shift in your career?

Matt: Well, it was actually during retail. My full career in retail was between 18 and 19 years. And I had a lot of fun with it at first because it's a high energy, there's music, and it's engaging. And you know me, I'm a little less social than I used to be, but I used to be very social. These days I really appreciate my quiet space and my grounding time. 

Matt: Back in the day I was a little bit spinning top and yeah, kind of nowhere, but, going through retail, I did everything from sales associate to general manager of a store and I did a lot of design stuff, windows, and merchandising in the stores. But after a while, I started getting older and my feet started wearing out and I started getting tired of working nights, weekends, and holidays, and I was like, what am I going to do? I'm going to be 65 years old running around a retail store that's not going to work. And it's not great money. It's a good honest living, but it wasn't great money. I wasn't saving a lot, and I just said I need to change something in my life. So that's when I went into massage therapy and that was actually because a good friend, kind of randomly mentioned to me a couple of times just because I gave him a little neck rub for two minutes. Stressed out, hey, let's work, you look really tense. So he was, you should really go into this. And the first time he mentioned it I was, that's silly, I'm going to be a massage therapist just because I gave someone a neck rub. But then it started to settle in and I was, I do need a change and I have a zoology degree, so I know my anatomy, my physiology, and so I just decided to pull the trigger. And I happened to be very blessed at the time that I was working for a company with a general manager who allowed me to take every Thursday off for two years straight to go to class. And she didn't once ask me to work that day. And even when she moved on and a new general manager moved into her position, she said, I need you to make sure that Matt Katz says every Thursday off until he's done with school. That was a big deal. 

Aneta: That's amazing. So wonderful 

Matt: And if anyone who's watching this knows retail. Retail doesn't do that, they don't care. It's a big corporation. And they say you work these days, and they black out months at a time where you can't take a vacation because it's the holidays, let's say. So that was a big deal. 

Aneta: I love your journey and I love having watched how you moved from one thing to the other and knew when to make the shift. So what would you say to people who maybe are scared, they know that they're not really happy where they are and something else might intrigue them, or they might have an aptitude for something, but they're scared to pursue it or to explore it what would you tell folks? 

Matt: Well, I think it starts with recognizing if you are operating out of fear if you are not moving forward in your life because you're fearful. I know when I was in retail I just know retail. That's all I know. Forgetting that I had this whole plethora of knowledge of anatomy and physiology and that I have a passion for architecture and some kind of design, and I thought, looking back on it now, I had so much more knowledge than I gave myself credit for. So I think maybe it's possible to step outside and say hey, what are the other things in my life that I'm good at? If I'm not happy with my job, if I don't like what I'm doing, maybe part of it's the company you're working for, who your boss is, I don't know. But maybe it's really just, hey, I'm not following my passion in life. The things I look at when I was a kid didn't have to do with money. It's just like, how did I entertain myself when I was a child? When we talk about our sort of spiritual journey, it's like tapping into that inner child.

Matt: It sounds cliche, but you have to think about what were you doing when you were a kid that was just consuming your time and you were loving, was it sports? Was it playing out of the woods? Was it building something? So I think it really helps to kind of turn back the pages and turn back time and look at what you were interested in as a kid. 

Aneta: I love that. Anytime I'm working with clients and they're struggling, or even young adults especially, I would say, what did you enjoy doing when you were a kid? What were you curious about? And so the fact that you can look back now and say, yeah, I used to fix things around the house, and climb up on the roof. That's funny, but for some reason that wasn't something that you didn't see as a career path for yourself. Was there a reason that you think, you say, I wonder if this curiosity about architecture could turn into a career for me? 

Matt: Well, it's funny, so this is probably going to go down two paths, and the first one is not, I'm not trying to throw my parents under the bus, but they had no interest in home renovation and then stuff like that. My mom was artistic and very creative, and she kind of always talked about doing stuff around the house, both of my parents talked a lot and they lived in theory, so they lived in their heads a lot and they talked a lot, but they never performed and brought things into action. That's sort of where I came in. I said, okay, let's do something around the house. But, so I didn't really have that push for my parents to go into architecture and renovation or even landscaping. I used to love to landscape in the yard too, and plant things and rearrange things. So it was my kind of wanting to do stuff, but my parents said you got to get an education. You can't just run around willy-nilly. You have to go and get a degree. The second part of this was if we go into the fact I'm adopted. Genetically, I'm predisposed to probably different things because I don't share my parents' genetics. But after I got into this, this is an interesting story and I don't want to spend too long on it but, a couple of years ago I found out that I could contact some of my biological family, on my father's side. I don't even know if I've talked to you about this. Correct me if I have or haven't. But, I found out after connecting with some of my biological family that my father and grandfather actually were in the construction and roofing industry, and here I'm running on the roof. My parents are like, why are you running around the roof? Well genetically I'm predisposed to this, so I don't know. 

Aneta: That's so interesting. So maybe you can go a little bit further in this. You grew up knowing it, you were adopted, I think. Correct? 

Matt: As long as I can remember, my parents were really good about that.

Aneta: Okay. And so what age did you decide that you were going to explore? Maybe a little bit more about the history of your biological parents? 

Matt: I would say I was in my late thirties. And by that point, I already started doing some spiritual work. I was working with a therapist and I started to get the understanding that if you're pushing and trying to do something and the universe is pushing back and putting up roadblocks, it's okay, I get it. It's not happening right now. And that's exactly what happened to me. I grew up in Illinois, I forget what year it was. Maybe it was 2010, 2011. Maybe, I don't know. But they had opened their adoption. It used to be closed Adoption, Illinois. They opened it up so that you could find records of your family. So I started filling out paperwork and talking to people and sending my paperwork out and it would get stuck in someone's court. The file would get lost, the judge for that court would change hands and it just was not happening. And I said, okay, I get it, this is not happening right now.

Matt: But I was curious because I had a little bit of information but no names or anything. And in my twenties at like 25, I had a bout with Hodgkin's Disease, which is cancer. And I thought, I started getting to this point where I was like, where I'm middle-aged and I feel I should know if there are other health risks that I should be forewarned. So I joined ancestry.com and 23andme, for those medical reasons, but also to find out what my ethnicity was because as much as I love my adoptive family, it was really obvious to me I didn't have a lot of commonalities with them. I didn't have a lot of interests and whatever. As much as I loved them, I was very different from everyone else in my family. 

Matt: So I got the results and found out my ethnicity and looked for health risks and didn't see anything major. No red flags. So I just kind of let it sit there and one night I was up late, it was probably 11 o'clock and I got this notification that I had a father-son match. And for a minute it didn't even click into my head. I was like, what did they mean by a father-son match? And then I was like, wait, my biological father. So long story short, I did a lot of digging and I connected with some of my family and I found out that the father-son match was not actually my father. My biological father passed away in 1996 from kidney cancer. And that was the same time that I was going through Hodgkin's cancer.

Matt: But this guy that had come up as my father's match was actually his identical twin. So they had identical genetics and that's why we matched. Now I have this, an uncle who is my father's identical twin. I've got several other uncles out there. And then I have three half brothers. This all happened after I lost both my parents. And my husband Steve lost both of his parents. So we had a huge shift in the dynamic of our family. And then this whole other family pops up out of nowhere. 

Matt: That's such a blessing. 

Aneta: Goosebumps. I know this story, and still, when you talk about it, you can't make this stuff up. And, the timing, as you said, for some reason the timing wasn't right before, but it was right now. And, so how do you feel about nature versus nurture? Now that you have met your biological family and you're able to compare, some of the things of being raised in a household and then things that you can't explain that might just be tied to genetics. 

Matt: Right. Well, there are so many factors and I believe it all comes together as it's supposed to come together. So it's not just one or the other. It's not just nature, it's not just nurtured. It's a combination, but it's actually part of a bigger design. Whether you want to call God's design or the universe's design, whatever it is, it's all happening the way it's supposed to. When I was younger, I didn't understand that so I would push, push, push, and try to get something done and it was like knocking my head against the wall and not understanding why it wasn't going anywhere. But now I let this just sort of unfold. I haven't read this book, but Steve, my husband, who I'm very grateful for, for supporting me in everything that I do.  

Matt: He has read the book, the Surrender Experian Experiment. So he talks about it all the time, and I haven't read it, but I get the understanding from my own spiritual studies and my work with therapists who are spiritually based. Something pops up and I just try to let it, okay, what's going to happen? I know that you can't just sit in your chair, let life pass by and everything's going to happen. You have to apply yourself, but I know when to stop pushing when something's not happening, and I know when to let something else open that I'm not expecting to happen. 

Matt: Let me take hold of it and I'll run with that. I don't know, I might not know where I'm going with it, but okay it's here and it was placed in front of me. This scenario was placed here, and I'm going to embrace it and go with it. 

Aneta: It's such a great life lesson because so much suffering happens in our resistance. When we try to control something that we have no control over. Right. I think part of that is knowing, but then also allowing. I love the word allow. It's very similar to surrender, but it also just feels like a little bit. I don't know it seems like more people resonate with the word allow to surrender. Seems like you're almost giving in or feeling defeated, but it's really not it's, it's choosing to allow things into your life as you so beautifully just stated.

Matt: And it gives a sense of maybe I do have some control over it. It's free will as opposed to just giving up, but when you talk about the suffering that happens in life. It makes me think back to that whole cancer scare I had in my twenties, and people ask me about that and I tell them absolutely emphatically 100%. I believe that it was my unacceptance of myself and what I was causing it. Disruption in my own life because I didn't accept myself. I just didn't like myself very much at that point in my life. And it caused a lot of stress in my body. And I do believe in a lot of instances, that's where illness comes from. I was 18 going into college, and I knew that I was gay, but I didn't admit it to myself. Even I told myself it was a phase. I'm sure I'll settle down with a nice woman. We'll have some kids, the picket fence, and all of this chatter in my head and all this stuff I denied and repressed, well, of course, something happened physically. 

Aneta: Mm-hmm. It's so interesting. Do you feel like this generation, is just one generation from us? Do you feel like you would've been able to accept yourself earlier based on everything else that is happening in the world today? Or do you think that it still would've just been your own journey?

Matt: I think it would've been my own journey. And like I said it's meant to happen a certain way. Like you can get knocked over the head and neither you learn the lesson nor you don't. I would've gotten knocked over the head in some manner, if it wasn't for this scenario, it would've been something else. And you have to think, even if I was raised in this newer generation, would I have had the same parents with the same mindset, or my parents would have a new modern mindset? Maybe that would've been different. There are so many factors. It's should have, could have, would've, at this point, I think that point's moot. It was my experience and I embraced that experience and I'm actually thankful for that experience. Seems weird to say I'm grateful that I was in misery, and I was in pain, but I've learned a lot and I think it's helped me, become a more empathetic and compassionate person for other people. 

Matt: Because you never know what someone else is going through is the big thing. Because I think people who knew me back then thought, you're fun, your party, you're going to class, you're getting your stuff done. You seem like you're always having fun. But really, I was miserable inside and nobody really knew it. 

Aneta: That's so true for all of us, right?

Aneta: We don't always know. And especially if we're, choosing to keep something in for ourselves and not really share with others. How old were you when you acknowledged to yourself and you accepted that you were a gay man, and then how much later did you come out and share with your family? 

Matt: I think acknowledging and accepting are two huge, totally different things. So acknowledging, I was in my late twenties, I want to say. It was probably, I was like, 27, 28. It was about the time I moved down to Cincinnati. Finished college. Moved on to Cincinnati, and then I started exploring and going into bookstores. And my first time at a gay club, which was the most nerve-wracking thing I think I've ever done. That was the acknowledgment part. And then I got outed by someone. And that's a whole nother story. So I got outed and I actually had conversations with the friend who outed me and things are copacetic and-

Matt: there was this whole thing where he was worried and upset that he ruined things for me and whatever I was like, no, no, it's fine. I'm at a point where I'm good with it. It happened. It needed to happen. It was ugly, but it needed to happen. So the acceptance part, it's funny, when I meditate and it's been a while since I've been to a therapist, but it's still something that comes up that I need to accept myself fully. Not just being gay, but my flaws and things like that. just yesterday, actually, a good friend of mine sent me an article about a d d. And about understanding it and having your spouse understand it. 

Matt: And it was an excerpt from a book called Driven to Distraction, which I think was popular in the nineties. And I remember when I was diagnosed my doctor actually said, you should read this book. And of course, I never got around to reading it. 

Matt: But I think the analogy was with this woman who had found a cough drop sitting on her dashboard in her car, and she was out running errands for the day. And so she kept getting her car after every errand going, I meant to take that cough drop and throw it in the trash at my last errand. I'll get it at the next one. So errand, after errand, she kept forgetting the damn cough drop and it was sitting on the dashboard right in front of her, but her mind was going somewhere else so fast that she would forget it. So then I think her husband got into the car with her and the cough drop was sitting there and she burst into tears and started crying and her husband was like, honey, what is going on? She's like, all day, I've just been trying to throw away this damn cough drop. And so it went into this whole dissertation about how people with a d d, how their minds work and they should explain this to their spouse so their spouse can understand it and cut them a break and stuff. So I still have to deal with stuff like that, whether it's homosexuality, whether it's a d d, whether it's just making a mistake. I used to be so self-critical of myself- 

Matt: for screwing something up and now I realize it's just a lesson. 

Aneta: Right. Well, that's wisdom, right? Because that's something that all of us struggle with. So, was it helpful? Tell me how the diagnosis helped you. Was it sort of this is what I've always known, but not able to articulate? Did you feel relief? Was it liberating or did you just seek to understand more? Like after somebody said, this is why your brain works the way that it. 

Matt: It was definitely liberating. It was like, there was an answer to a big question why is it so hard for me to sit down and actually read a book for two hours or study for a test?

Matt: But there was still the lingering feeling of like, I'm still different than everyone. Why am I so weird? Or why am I different? I don't want to be different. I just want to be like everyone else. I want to be like my friend Aneta, who can stay in on a Friday night and study for a test and not go out with me and stuff.

Aneta: I don't think you wanted that Matt. 

Matt: No, I didn't want that. I wanted to be dancing at the bar top and I wanted to make those stupid mistakes I made back then. So that was my path. But it's funny because this article that my friend sent me also sparked those memories of, I wasn't good enough and I was different. I was still working on getting rid of those little shadows of that experience. And I think back to my parents asking me, why can't you sit down and study? Or why, why can't you just do this? I'm like, wow, that's still kind of floating around back there. And I have to dial back to that time period and say, I forgive myself. Maybe that's a meditation I need to do and see myself as a child and tell myself it's, it's okay. People ask you why you can't do something, I just do things differently. I think that's actually, thank you for bringing that up and talking about it because I think that's a meditation I need to do for myself. 

Aneta: Yeah, no, it's amazing. But I also think not everyone can do what you're doing, which is taking homes that are in need of such repair down to the like tiniest detail, everything in the home. And so how do you feel like maybe your ability to move from different things and to have that energy is actually set you up for success in what you're doing today?

Matt: That's a great point because the diagnosis of a d d to some people, it's like I said, I felt weird and different, but I actually see it as a benefit in certain ways because my brain shoots off in different directions and I'm creative and I can look over here and see that door needs to change and that needs to this, and this window needs to go over here. Whereas someone walks in and they don't see any of that stuff. But I can walk in and boom, like the whole landscape changes in my head. And so that's part of the benefit. I still struggle with structure sometimes, but I give myself a break because I can't do steps A, B, C, and D every day the same way. It just makes me absolutely insane. I need variety, but I also know that I need to swing back to the center and get my stuff done, and then I can bounce around a little bit and then I can come back to the center and be responsible and do what everyone expects me to do. 

Aneta: Yeah. Well, right. And we're constantly trying to find that balance, aren't we? Whatever that means to us. 

Matt: But I guess, going back to your original question about acceptance and acknowledgment acceptance is an ongoing thing and it's like things keep popping up. And I keep saying, okay. I have to accept that I have to love myself. I have to accept myself and move forward.

Aneta: It's a daily choice, right? Some days it's easier than others and other days we have to come back. I find myself doing that all the time and I think what you've talked about regarding meditation and your spiritual journey, I'm sure that that's helping in this area of acceptance as well. Tell me a little bit more about your spiritual journey and how did you start to sort of seek all the information that, because I know you've been on your journey for some time now, 

Matt: Right? Well, I don't even know where it starts. I mean, it could have started back when I was an old kid and I was very sensitive. I was thinking about this morning, and for some reason, popped into my head how instinctual I would be with people around me. If people around me were upset, it would upset me. People around me were happy, I would be joyful. And I'm still that way, like going into my massage therapy practice. I'll never forget this client, I had never worked with her before, and she came in and was visibly distracted. I wouldn't say upset at the time but distracted. She had something on her mind and I asked her the standard questions and what she would like I'll be checking in on your pressure and if you're comfortable, you let me know what you need and I started working with her, and like five minutes into the session I like started to feel my eyes well up. And I was on the verge of crying and I was like, okay, pull yourself together. I don't know what your deal is, but you got to be here for this client right now. She needs your help. So I brought myself back to the center and then a couple of minutes later it started coming back up and the next thing she burst out into tears and started telling me about her mother and this horrible situation that had happened and she was so upset. I think it kind of started with me acknowledging that I was a bit more sensitive than some people maybe empathic in a sense or intuitive. I wanted answers for that and I didn't seem to be functioning as a lot of people to do in society, just keep plugging away. I kept getting distracted by something or getting upset by this and finally when I went into massage therapy, my professor was like, listen, if you've got any hangups in your life, you need to talk to someone about these things, because once you sit down with someone, it's going to unravel in any number of ways. Either your shit's going to come out and spill out into a session. You're going to start talking to your client about your emotional stuff, or their stuff's going to come out and it could trigger stuff in you. That's when I went to see a therapist that was more spiritually based. We started talking about meditation and that kind of unleashed all of this stuff. So that led to me. I guess sort of solidified that massage therapy is a good thing for me to get into. But yes, I've got this whole Pandora's box of stuff I need to talk about and it led to me doing reiki and meditation I think the meditation has probably been one of the best things for me and I don't remember who I learned this concept from, but we're all familiar with probably praying whether you go to church or synagogue or don't go any, to any establishment, and you just say prayers at night like, God, please help me or universe help me with this. 

Matt: But I don't think many of us actually take the time to stop and quiet our minds and listen for the answers. Because for me, meditation is where the answers come in. The quiet space is when the answers come in as opposed to, Matt Katz from 25, 30 years ago who was like, I'm struggling, I'm confused, I'm distracted. I'm not happy with my life. Let's just go out and have fun. That's not where the answers are, obviously. The answers come from within ourselves when we quiet ourselves. 

Aneta: It's so true. I think the way I've heard it described is that when we pray, we speak to God, and when we meditate, we allow God to speak to us and we listen and I call it my date with the divine, which is when I sit down in my meditation. I'm obviously very biased because I teach meditation, so I see the benefits and I recognize them. But what would you say are some of the biggest benefits that you've experienced personally when you meditate or if you ever, get out of your routine and you don't find yourself meditating for a few days? What do you notice? 

Matt: I definitely fall off the wagon with any number of things, whether it's my diet or meditation, or exercise. As I said, that's one of the things of ADD that I kind of struggle with because I can ping like all over the place and I can be everywhere and then go like I've been eating gluten, dairy, and grossness all week, and I've skipped four meditations and then I start feeling like it only magnifies the chaos in my head. So that's when I'm like, okay, if I just get back into the meditation tomorrow it starts to sort of a chain reaction of, I feel better today. I'm grounded, I'm meditating. I'm going to be careful of what I eat, going to make sure I get out for at least a walk today. It's kind of the first and the chain of things that lead to a healthier life. 

Aneta: I agree. I feel like, when I do that, then I make better choices throughout the day. And I know it's just human nature. Right. It's much easier to go, I forgot it. I'll just consider it an entire cheat day today. Right, but it is so important to do it. Now, do you like to meditate in the morning or do you prefer other times throughout the day? 

Matt: It's funny, used to meditate in the afternoon. And this is kind of the story of my life, things shift. I'll be consistent with something for a while and then I'll get out of that routine and then it'll shift into, like, now I like to meditate in the morning and whether I'm up at seven to do your meditation live, or whether I listen to it at 7:30 or 7:45. I can do that. But I definitely meditate better in the morning these days. If I put it off then life happens and the day goes on and I've got someone calling me saying, hey, what are we supposed to do with the gutters? Or hey, something broke, someone broke a window, what do you want us to do? And then there's no meditation. And occasionally if I have had a really crazy day, It'll happen at night before I go to bed. If my mind's going and I'm like, no, no, no, no. There's no way I'm going to fall asleep. So I'll sit back in my chair in the meditation room, or even in bed, and just listen to an old recording. And then it totally helps you fall asleep. 

Aneta: I know, it's like a rinse, right? Of rinse of the brain. I like doing it then too. I also, when I have tough days, find myself trying to incorporate a second meditation, either at lunchtime or maybe the end of the day or something else, just as a reset. It's just so helpful to sort of take the moment to just pause. Now, are there other things that you do too? Because you mentioned Reiki and I think both of us love our acupuncture sessions, although I do need to go back and get some more of that in. Are there other things that you do that are part of your self-care that you feel have really helped you overall? 

Matt: Yeah. There are so many different things that I try to open my mind to and that I experience and that do help. But not everything is the right thing for every day. I feel like the meditation is a good consistent thing. Acupuncture I haven't done it over the summer for some reason during the summer my energy's different. I fall away from a lot of my stuff because I'm just out and it's like, if I can be out for a walk or out in nature or going for a bike ride or doing something, I want to be out there. And so I don't want to sit still at the acupuncturist for an hour and a half. I have trouble going to my massage. But my massage, I've been good at this, this summer. I do that once every two weeks. Meditation, massage, acupuncture. I think if you see behind me, I've got. Crystal singing bowls back here.

Matt: And each one of those is aligned with a chakra, but I tend to use that more in the winter. That's something I need to get back into. I've neglected that for a while. Reikis is a great thing too, if you can even include it with your message or if it's a separate session. A lot of people incorporate how fun would be if you could find an acupuncturist, massage therapist, and reiki personnel in the same place. And I also use a device called the Healy. I think we've mentioned it. We touched on that. 

Aneta: Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about that because I'm so curious and I've heard a couple of people tell me that they use the Healy, but just remind me what it does and how you use it, and what you've noticed as a result of using it. 

Matt: It can sound kind of farfetched like it's some kind of Star Trek thing. But if you look back, let's take Star Trek as an example, and look back to when you used to watch Star Trek as a kid and it was the old one from like, what the fifties or sixties, whatever it was, and they had this little flip deal and they beamed me up, Scotty to the spaceship. And then fast forward decades later, we have the little flip device that we talked to with no corns. So the Healy is a frequency device and it can both emit a frequency. and it can read frequencies. So whether you physically attach it to your body with a little electrode and gel pad, or whether you just have it clipped onto your shirt, it can read the frequencies coming out of your body and it can tell you what frequencies are off, which sounds bizarre.

Matt: But then it'll give you feedback. And the strangest thing is like, sometimes it's like, well, maybe that's a little bit vague, but I've had one or two times where it'll give you a readout in English and tell you, and it has told me before, like when I've been really bad with my diet and exercise like you need to hold off on the fatty bad foods and hold back on the alcohol. And I'm like, how did you know that? Who's in there?

Aneta: You're like, Steve, is this you? 

Matt: Yeah. I'm like, are there cameras? Did someone set this up? But honestly, it's kind of a fun device. I don't use it all the time. I know people who use it. All day, every day, people swear by it. But I also believe that we need to be conscious of what we're doing in our daily life and not just rely upon this little mechanism to fix everything, right? Because I could wear it all day and feel great. But if I got underlying emotional issues or things that I'm not dealing with, it's always going to be there as soon as I take the Healy off and put it off to the side. But I got to tell you I've gone through periods where I've had really bad joint pain and who knows whether it was emotional or dietary or what is or physical problems that were undiagnosed. But I have used that, for that inflammation. And I swear to God, it's like taking an Advil.

Matt: I'll sit in my meditation chair and I'll put it on and I'll put on some music and it'll be sort of like a meditation space with the Healy. And for several hours it's like my joint pain's gone when it's really severe.

Aneta: I'm definitely curious. If someone else is interested, do you just go online and you can purchase it or do you have to work through and purchase it through someone?

Matt: It's been a while since I purchased mine, but I purchased mine from a friend who was brought into the sort of Healy spotlight by some other friends and she does work with like spiritual work, energy work. And, I was having a conversation with her and she mentioned it to me and so I checked it out. I don't know if you can just go online and buy it back then you had, there was a couple of years ago you had to buy it through someone.

Matt: Because this is a company based in Germany. I know, was it FDA certified or whatever? You can't medically diagnose with it and whatever, but, it's certified in the US. I'd have to look into that. I know I have access. If someone wanted to buy one for me, I could go online and put the order in and pay for it and stuff like that. 

Aneta: Okay. We'll include that in the show notes. You and I can make sure we get the details and include that there. Okay. So the title of this podcast, I asked this question of all my guests, Matt, is Live the Width of Your Life, and it's based on a quote. And I wanted to ask you, what does it mean to you to live the width of your life? 

Matt: I think in general terms, it's just to be open to new experiences. If I think back to decades ago when I was that guy that was afraid to be himself and thought I had this narrow path that I had to step along in order to be successful, that was the opposite of leaving the width of my life. I was confined, I was squished. But as I get older and I have more experiences and gain maybe a little more wisdom, I realize that just keeping myself open to a new experience even if I'm feeling like, how did I get roped into this? I don't want to do this thing today or this experience that I think I've had before I don't want to do this again. I end up allowing myself to do it. And then at the end of the experience I'm like, that was actually really wonderful. I thought I didn't want to have this dinner with these people, or I thought I didn't want to go on this excursion out somewhere that I wasn't expecting to have fun. And it always ends up that I have a good time and I gained something positive from the experience. And a lot of it ends up just being the connection with other people too. Because the older I get and the more, lot of spiritual stuff I experience, I find that I like the quiet and I like being by myself and I don't miss the chaos of being around a lot of people. But then I also have to be reminded that it's important to have those connections in our lives. Coming to the end of life at some point I don't want to look back and say, I really wish I had traveled more, or I had visited more family or more friends. 

Aneta: I love it so much. Thank you for coming today, and being on the show. Thank you for your friendship how can we best support you? How can people follow you? We'll definitely include the details about the Healy, but if they're interested in learning more about the work that you're doing right now, how can we best follow you or connect?

Matt: Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I'm honored to be talking to you today, and I'm honored to be your friend and to continue this friendship we've had for decades now. Yeah. But as far as supporting me, my big output now is just Facebook. I should do more with my Instagram and I think once, I come to more of an end period with this house I'm working on. I'll do a lot of before and afters, so I'll put more of that on Instagram because that tends to be more of a visual sort of medium for people. 

Matt: I've got a ton of support from my husband Steve, and from my friends, like you, from people who don't even know me that well on Facebook. I run into people who I'm 90% Facebook friends with and see them once in a very blue moon and they're like, I love watching your houses. I love watching you knock down walls and open up windows and all that stuff. That's what I have for now. That's, I'm very, very blessed to be, supported by a lot of people. 

Aneta: I think definitely people should follow you on Facebook because I love your videos. It's one thing to show before and after, and I think we're spoiled because on TV we watch these, half-hour shows and you see the home at the beginning, and then you see it at the end. And there's a lot of fast forwarding, but the work that you do down to the details of everything that goes into it. I always find that it's almost like a metaphor for us and any sort of improvements that we make on ourselves, right? There are some things that you, think are going to be easy and they're not or the things that you think are going to be really hard, but somehow you're able to kind of move through it and a little bit better. So, for some reason, I just find it very therapeutic to see the work that you're doing with the homes and 

Matt: Well, thank you. 

Aneta: Encouraging as a person. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Continued success to you. And I'll be sure to include all these details. And if you listened to or watched today's episode and you are inspired by Matt's story, If you think others could benefit, please share it with your friends, your family, with others, and subscribe to be notified when a new episode is ready. Thanks so much, Matt. 

Matt: Thank you, Aneta.

Podcast Outro

Aneta: Do you enjoy this episode and want a personalized guide to making 2023 the best year ever, then you are in luck. I've just released a bestselling book Live The Width of Your Life, 365 Daily meditations on living with passion, purpose, and peace. Each daily meditation provides you with a journal prompter challenge so you can begin taking daily imperfect action towards the life of your dreams. You can get your copy today on Amazon. The link is in the show notes, and I'll see you next time.

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