What Happens When Work Takes Over Your Life | Renee Vincelli
(YouTube Transcript)
Aneta (00:01.654): Renee, welcome to the Live the Width of Your Life podcast.
Renee (00:05.307): Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to this.
Aneta (00:07.904): Me too. And I thought that I had you on when I first launched the podcast because we'd planned on it, and we just discovered that actually it never happened. And so now here we are.
Renee (00:18.757): Right? Yeah. Yep, here we are. I've been looking forward to it. I've listened to many of your other episodes, and I've always found the show so great, and happy to be a guest and be able to share with the audience today.
Aneta (00:31.746): Yeah, I'm excited because you recently left corporate a second time. And I first met you back in banking days. We worked together, always enjoyed working together, and had a wonderful relationship. And you left several years ago. You were focusing on building a coaching career and walking us through a little bit of what happened in the last few years in your life.
Renee (00:38.821): Second time. Yeah, so, actually, I'll start with when you and I met and the impression that you had on me, because I think it's actually an interesting part of the story. So when you and I were working together, we were a part of a project. And I remember everyone else involved was very afraid and all the things. And I remember us having a conversation and you being extremely poised and calm and of a nature that no one else was at the time. And I remember thinking to myself, whatever that is, I need some more of that because we need more of that in general in these environments that we're in.
So that was probably the beginning of the journey, but it would have been probably 2018, 2019. Since then, I have really gone on a journey of self-discovery, of really figuring out what it is I love to do. And for me, there are a couple of things. I love being a mother, and I love helping other people make more space in their lives for their families and their work together, really prioritizing those things in their lives that matter the most to them. I returned to corporate America a few years ago.
And in doing so, sort of reconfirmed the things I knew the first time, that there's a lot of help that's needed for people, a lot of support that they need, a lot of self-reflection. I think these environments that many people are in right now in these corporations are not necessarily honoring the priorities that people have in their lives as individuals, as humans, as people.
And so I want to help people with that. I want to help people work through that. I think I've done that pretty well outside of the industries I've been in and outside of these companies, and as a self-employed coach and also inside. So here we are back outside, and I'm excited to be doing it again.
Aneta (02:56.92): Yeah, and the world needs you. I think that when you went back, it was post-COVID, so post-pandemic. What was the difference between working in a corporate environment before COVID? What did you notice about people or about even cultures?
Renee (03:15.608): Yeah, so I left the first time shortly after COVID, and really, at that time, I noticed that there was much more support and much more openness to the needs of individuals and their families and their lives, much more flexibility, much more support, much more willingness to have those conversations at a one-to-one individual level.
I think that slowly over time has eroded. right? So we're in a state now, we're in 2026, and having just left it again a couple of weeks ago, I can tell you that that, let's just call it 2020 to 2026, things have changed. And the reality for people, though, is that what they need hasn't changed. So even during COVID, I always used to like to say that everybody's living their version of COVID on any given day. right?
So COVID was something we all went through together, sort of a ubiquitous common experience we all shared. But on any given day, you know, you or me, we could get sick. Our children could get sick. Our parents could get sick. We could have a crisis at home. So we're all, in one way or another, living through different individual situations. It's not like we're past, or ever will be past, the need for some of those things that were provided during COVID that were actually really, really beneficial to people.
Aneta (04:41.934): Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting because I think some organizations have been really great at evolving and identifying maybe some of the smaller organizations. It was easier to shift to say, so this isn't 2019 or before. Things have changed. Individuals have changed during the pandemic. We were in an environment where people were working from home or were in a hybrid. And some organizations have had a much harder time.
I think with this adjustment, many organizations, not just locally here in the Northeast Ohio area, but also globally, have a pretty strict return to work, return to office, I guess, policy. Everyone's been working the whole time. But return to the office. And so, from your own experience, what do you see? How is that impacting families? How is it impacting women, and or even like, you know, people who are part of like two working, two partners who are trying to raise a family, and also working at the same time.
Renee (05:47.646): There are a lot of impacts. It really squeezes both your financial situation in some ways as well as your time. And if you think about the things that parents need, or really anyone, so you can apply it to anyone, but we'll talk about parents specifically, because that's the world I know best. When you squeeze those two things for a mom or for a dad, you're really starting to get into the realm of more stress,
less time with the family, more financial constraints, all things that people went through a process of not experiencing that, and also experiencing success at work. So you are in a situation for five plus years where those things don't exist. You're able to exercise in the morning, and you feel healthier. You're able to take a meaningful lunch. You can walk around the block on a beautiful day. You can see nature, you can do whatever
to pick up your kids from school, and hop back on work at home after you do that. You take 20 minutes out of your day. It's not a huge deal. When you ask someone to return to an office that's 20, 30, or 40 minutes away from their home, you have taken all those little moments away from them. And those little moments add up, and they mean a lot to people. They mean a lot to the health of their family, a lot to their mental health, a lot to just their joy and positivity in their lives. I also think it's sort of for what?
So like I said, we've been doing this and doing it well as a society for the past several years. And so it's a big strain. Managing people. So, you know, as I said, you leaving a few weeks ago, I left a team of people that I managed, hearing their stories, some of what I'm describing, and also others. It really does hit home in a lot of ways that we we didn't we don't need we don't need to go down this path the way that we are.
Aneta (07:42.991): It's so common, and I'm hearing so many people really struggle, especially because we're also at the same time that, coming back to the office, organizations are having conversations around how to use artificial intelligence. What is the role of AI? People are expected to be available 24 seven through all the different technology tools that are now available. So this change within the last few years? How do you see AI impacting what's happening?
Renee (08:18.961): AI is a wonderful tool. So, having used it both in my last role and now, you know, being in coaching full-time again, there's a ton of benefit with it. It creates a lot of efficiencies and a lot of value. The risk I see is that when you try to use AI to replace the things that humans bring innately and only humans bring innately, which are emotion, connection, relationships, intellect, decision making, thinking, collaboration, all these things.
You are never going to get any of that from any technology, AI included. And I fear that while we're asking people to return, to sit together in locations, maybe, maybe not be together, depending on the nature of their team and where they work, we're also asking them to replace their humanness with machine capabilities using AI. And that scares me a little bit because they don't those two things don't really go together very well. And because what I'm interested in and what I care about are the people. I want to help people. I want to help individuals. I want to help them be successful, thrive, and grow in their lives. I want to do the same in mine. And overuse of some of these tools is not going to support that for any of us.
Aneta (09:51.427): Yeah. And you mentioned so many of the things, and also it's like just the level of trust that we need to create on teams, create between individuals, and some of those things we shouldn't even want to outsource. I recently spoke to someone, I think I shared with you an HR conference, we talked about AI versus emotional intelligence, and there are things that we absolutely do not want to outsource. There are things that
we as humans should continue to want to grow, to develop in ourselves, whether you're in the office, whether you're working remotely, you can still exhibit those skills and still create something meaningful, and then use the tool to support you. And yet I feel, I don't know, maybe I need to really spend more time with it when people are trying to replicate themselves. There's something about that that just doesn't feel right to me.
Renee (10:44.219): Yeah. I mean, if you think about the nature of it, you think about, say, leadership development or training and development, people really building competencies in themselves. We have been speaking as long as I've been in my career about growing communication skills, growing interpersonal relationships, growing, I don't know, emotional intelligence in some way. And we built training companies, have built training, and people have built training to support that.
I fear that, as a shortcut, right, as a shortcut to not needing to do that anymore, we're simply going to ask our computers to mimic some of those things, and we'll copy and paste, and we'll say we did so. We demonstrated that skill, but we didn't include the person in it. And it scares me a little bit, because I can see as this goes on that could be where we had, and I don't want that to happen. Because at the end of the day, why are we all here and doing what we're doing in any case? know, Being with you, us having this conversation, I have a meeting after this, being with those folks, being with my kids later today, on my son's 12th birthday, you know, there's a human nature to all of our lives, and I do not want that to go away, and we'll do everything I can to fight against that.
Aneta (12:07.712): Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about who you want to serve, why you feel so passionate about it. Tell me who you want to serve from a coaching perspective.
Renee (12:19.419): So I want to serve people who are like me. right? Who are like me from the perspective, and this is of many people, most people, they've got people in their lives that they care about more than they care about their jobs. Oftentimes, that's their children, their spouses. In some cases, it could be parents that they're caring for, or close friends, but people who have obligations and responsibilities outside of their work, yet still want to be successful at work. They still want to thrive and grow and be successful in their careers. I believe very fundamentally that the family is the foundation of society. So before there was a government, before there was a church, before there was a business, a company, a corporation, there was the family.
But yet I don't believe that thought, and I think most people, if you push them on it, they're going to come to this. They're going to tell you the same thing. Family is the number one thing. I mean, often it's become sort of a very trite thing people will say in passing. But when you really push them on, well, how does that show up in how you lead? How does that show up in your decisions that you make, your policies that you have, the judgments that you make about people and about how you're going to treat those people, say on your team or in your organization?
That notion that the family is the number one priority, I don't necessarily think that that shows up a lot today in our world. And for me, it's what I care about the most. And I want to put that front and center with the people that I work with. How do we make space for that part of you while also growing and being successful in your career and in your role at work?
Aneta (14:06.946): Yeah, it's so interesting because I think reflecting, I worked the entire time my kids, you know, I was raising the kids growing up, and I think about the leaders that I worked with. I was fortunate that I had a lot of leaders who understood and were comfortable if I needed to leave for something, if there was a big event happening. But there's so much that happens without us sharing, like coordinating with grandparents or with your partner, like who's taking off this time or with babysitters or whatever, so much that is this added stress. So, how have you personally, as a leader, helped folks on your team know that that was something that you were supportive of, that you knew that they could also be successful at work and still ambitious, while still balancing what was important to them outside of work?
Renee (14:58.587): Wow, I think it comes across very naturally, and how I communicate and what I talk about. So when you talk about expectations and people ask questions like, well, is it OK if I do X, Y, and Z? I need to leave early because I have to pick the kids up, or the kids are sick today. Can I work from home and just sort of multitask while I manage that? My response has always been, of course, we don't even really need to talk about it. And then over time, as you get to know somebody, some of what we're talking about actually begins to come across.
And people know pretty quickly where you stand on some of these things. So the very notion that I believe family is the most important thing in people's lives should be lived in service of that. That's something people typically know about me when I'm walking with them, and I read that way and talk that way. And so what I'm happy about and what I'm proud of is that there I've got a long list of examples of people who have been promoted under my leadership or I have watched grow in their roles while having children, having challenges through COVID, or whatever example you want to use. And those things make me proud because I do believe that you can do both. I don't believe that you have to take a step back or that you have to somehow change what you're looking for because you're a mother or because you're a father or because you want to have a family. I believe that the folks that I've worked with know that about me and know that they can have both.
Aneta (16:29.838): Yeah. And I think that it's such small things, the choices, the not having to explain, not you know, expecting people to prove that they're still doing their job. That builds trust. That creates loyalty, creates more commitment and dedication. And the challenge, think, is that many organizations, it really is left up to the it to each manager. It's not something that necessarily is more standard than in Europe, for example, where there are a lot of policies and laws to protect families.
Renee (17:08.719): Yeah, and what's interesting is to go back to the point. right? So, taking sort of the company organizational push that we're seeing around a lot of these topics, like return to office and flexibility, and marrying that up with an individual manager in their job, you have conflict there and tension. So what's interesting is that I have spoken to at least three or four different people over the past couple of weeks who, when they talk about these topics, are frustrated as managers.
They're not talking to me about, like, I personally am struggling with returning to the office as an example. They're talking about, I've always been a certain kind of leader. I've always been a certain kind of manager. I've always been supportive. I've always given my people what they need. And now I have to be something I'm not. I have to deliver a message that isn't really mine. And I can't do it with authenticity.
I can't do it with conviction because it's so counter to what I feel. And that's a large part of where I was as well. So it's interesting because we've got a lot of top-down push right now against, I think, for a lot of people, very strong feelings as leaders on some of these issues.
Aneta (18:29.014): It's so interesting. And so now that you're outside of that environment, I know that you are so interesting continuing to support these families. Tell me about the I saw that you are launching a group program this May. Tell me a little bit more about that program. What's it called? And some of the details.
Renee (18:47.121): All to Return to Ourselves.
Aneta (18:50.466): Okay, why'd you pick that?
Renee (18:53.111): It's a nice spin on the ubiquitous return to office that's everywhere. So it's a little tongue in cheek, but that's exactly what we are trying to focus on, let's focus on for a minute ourselves and what it is that we want, what it is that we desire. I think folks, naturally, in this period have almost put that in the back of their mind because they feel they need to comply. And even if ultimately you do think you can.
Right? Because for some people, that will be the right answer. Let's take a minute and really think through, is that the best thing? Let's think about ourselves and make that choice deliberately.
Aneta (19:33.632): How long's the program?
Renee (19:37.018): Six weeks, one hour each week, we're gonna get together, and we're going to talk about exactly what we're talking about here. Should I stay in this company? Should I not? Should I try to leave? Should I find other options? What goes into making that decision? What is flexibility? So flexibility is an extremely unique and one-on-one, person-by-person sort of thing.
It cannot be defined broadly for everybody in a company. So what is it for you? What is it for me? What is it for someone else? All of that's going to be different. Really helping people, I think, feel empowered and have the agency to make some of these choices. The thing I've seen for a lot of people, until you work past this, is there's a feeling of being stuck,
well, what am I gonna do? I just have to accept this. And I don't want that for people because I do think there are other options that exist. So we're gonna talk about all of those things in this program. Because it's a group program, people can learn from others, and there's sort of a value in that, and that conversation with a broader group of people experiencing the same things. So yeah, it's gonna be great. We start on May 8th, and then we'll go for six weeks.
Aneta (20:51.97): That's wonderful. I, and And is this open to men and women? Yeah.
Renee (20:56.345): Absolutely, absolutely. The thing that I feel very strongly about, too, so naturally I think this topic typically is more oriented toward women, but it doesn't need to be. It doesn't have to be. My husband is extremely involved in all of these things as a family. We care about these things equally. So, what's interesting is that men have been the ones that I've been speaking with about a lot of this.
And they're not necessarily, they're not separate. It's easy to talk just about women, but men are very, very welcome too.
Aneta (21:32.821): Yeah, you've been posting some really great content on LinkedIn. I think that some of it might always be so respectful and professional, but I think definitely very direct and poignant, and causes one to be reflective. And I think that more and more people are going to resonate with the content. You posted one recently about women who were not going back to the 80s. And you have like a picture of the woman with the suit and the little bow tie, and pantyhose from like the Lego egg. And it just made me laugh, but it also made me kind of sad to be quite honest, because I thought about just that I remember growing up, and I didn't grow up in, like, I wasn't working in the eighties.
I was working in the early nineties, and I thought about just what I thought my options were in terms of being able to work and to have a family. And it was challenging then, too, but there were some things that we didn't have to worry about. We didn't have cell phones back then. So there was, we didn't have portable laptops to bring home. Was Email just started, you know, as I remember, like, and so there were no channels like Slack, or all these things didn't exist. So there was a natural barrier. Like when I got into my car, or I got on the subway when I lived in New York to go home, that was it. I didn't actually have to worry about work until the next day.
So there was a natural break. There was an opportunity to shift into a personal life. There was time to rest in a much deeper way. We do not have those luxuries, even though we have technology, capabilities, and tools that are supposed to make us more efficient. I think we've lost so much in the process as well.
Renee (23:38.546): Completely agree with you. And you know, the thing that's interesting about that post and some of what I was thinking about all of these tools that we have, they should be making our lives easier. right? So if you think about the 80s, which my mother was a working mom in the 80s, and she very much was that woman putting on those clothes, looking a certain way with the shoulder pads and the heels and the whole thing, and going to work and then coming home, long commutes, and very much this is the expectation.
With all of this technology that we have now, it should be used for the people. right? It should be used for the worker. It should be used to make life easier and to integrate all of this because it's almost silly. Why wouldn't we? Why wouldn't we afford people that? Instead, I feel like what we've done is we've used it for what we've needed when we've needed it in a crisis, but we're not allowing it to be what it is to enable people to have the flexibility anymore. We're moving against that. And it's hard to understand what's driving that. I ask myself a lot, what is the drive there? Because we don't really have to go back to where we were. And it's almost like you're living in two worlds. Like, you're going to go back to the 80s, but you're still going to have all this technology. You're just not going to get the value from it that it can provide.
Aneta (25:00.472): Yeah. And you and I had an interesting conversation offline too, where we were talking about, remember, being in positions of leadership, of course, in banking, and always being told, like, you have to be a good steward of the shareholder. And they're adding value to the shareholder and their expectation. And as we think about it, it's like, who are the majority of the shareholders in large organizations?
Renee (25:26.449): Yeah, so it's interesting. you look at any, If you look at Fortune 500 companies, banks certainly would be in that group. Most of the shareholders of companies, 60, 70, 80 %, are institutions. So your BlackRock, your State Street, your Vanguard, these very large institutions hold the shares of these companies. So when I first started in my career, and you would talk about the different constituencies that you care about, your community and your customer, your employees, your shareholders,
In my brain, I was always picturing like a shareholder with a couple of stocks, you know, got some stocks, and maybe there's a lot, maybe there's a little bit. The truth is, that's not really what we're dealing with now. So when companies are thinking through their shareholder value and their shareholder return, they're not thinking about a bunch of, collection of individuals that have a lot of shares. They're thinking about those companies that I mentioned, those very large institutions.
And I don't know for sure, and I don't know that one could determine in the seats that we both have, but you wonder what the motivation is that those institutions are pushing. right? Because it isn't really on the path of the individual or the individual's families like it might have been, 50 years ago or 60 years ago. So just something I think about a little bit and try to understand, but haven't quite come to the right, haven't quite figured it out just yet.
Aneta (26:54.552): I think just see that awareness where you could just go, wait a second, so why am I making these choices and sacrifices often, and what are the consequences of them? And does that align with what's most important to me, I think, first of all. So I encourage everybody to sign up for your class. I think that anybody who is returning to the office, who is struggling with some of these questions, who's trying to figure out, do I stay or do I go?
But also, if I stay, how do I create a sense of health or wellness? How do I create a sense of good well-being or a state of alignment as I'm trying to balance all these things? How do I create a community within this group of other people who are maybe going through the same things, where you could talk about stuff that you can't necessarily bring to work and don't always want to burden your family with?
Definitely going to include the link in the show notes for people to register for that because I think that's wonderful. And I know you're intentionally keeping it fairly intimate and small. So, encourage folks to register as soon as they can, just so they can claim a spot, because I think it's really important. But what if someone is listening and they're really kind of stressed? We know that burnout and disengagement continue to be on the rise. Gallup’s study continues to show that this is something that is not going away and continues to be a challenge. challenge. How could you encourage them, or what kind of advice would you give to people who are listening and maybe struggling with some of these things?
Renee (28:33.809): They slow down, do your best to slow down. I think there's a badge of honor that I think sometimes we wear that is tied to more and more and more for everyone else. Go, go, go, produce, perform, provide, all these things. And I get it.
It's absolutely what we need to do in many ways and what we should do. But at the end of the day, you can't do that if you're struggling yourself, if you're burnt out. So I think the only way to really get past that is to take some time, be still, slow down, really consider what the cost is for that kind of a life, because there is a cost. I always say, And you can apply this to a lot of different things, but I always say, " You can pay me now, or you can pay me later, but you're going to pay.
So you can pretend that all is well and that might get you by for a little bit, but someday the payment's coming, and you're gonna have to, it's gonna gonna get worse, and you're gonna have to acknowledge that something has to give. So I think it's really slow down and take some time and really think through what it is that you want.
Aneta (29:50.797): Yeah, absolutely. If folks want to work with you and they want to learn more, maybe about this program, but also about working one-on-one from a coaching perspective, or even hiring you for their organization if they're looking to work with you at that capacity, what is the best way that they can find you?
Renee (30:09.243): I do spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I do have a website, it's renevincelli.com. And I'll just add, as far as organizations go, I think a lot of my content that does appeal to individuals a lot, like on LinkedIn and different places, but I am very interested in working with like-minded organizations. Typically, smaller companies are likely places that value some of the things that we're talking about and want some help, some professional help in supporting their people.
Those are the kind of organizations I would like to work with, and obviously, love working one-on-one with individuals who are looking for some support in these areas as well.
Aneta (30:46.774): Absolutely. I think that organizations are going to have to address what they're saying. I think that there will come a time when there will either be an exodus of really good quality people or something will give. And as you said, there will have to be a decision to make. And I think that it's really important to be proactive and to think through some of these things now, and also ask, like, ask your employees how they are doing.
Ask, and the answer can't just be to call this number. It's not an individual personal problem. Some things can be addressed, and that can make a huge difference. So I really hope that organizations are going to be focusing on doing what's right for their employees because I think there are a lot of great leaders out there who would like to see that.
Renee (31:38.435): I completely agree. What you don't know is, you It's interesting in some of these companies, you don't know because of the environment, who actually does feel that way. I think a lot of people do. And I think people need support. To the degree people need that support, I'm here to help them.
Aneta (31:55.521): Absolutely. Anything else you want to share with the audience before we get to the final question?
Renee (32:03.877): I don't think so. I would just say, don't let yourself sit too long in this discomfort that you feel. Do something about it. And if someone like me or someone like you can help them, take a step and do that. Because you don't need to go through this alone.
Aneta (32:23.158): Absolutely. What did your boys say when they heard that mom wasn't going to be going into the office anymore, but that you were going to be able to work from home and spend more time with them?
Renee (32:34.565): They were thrilled. So I'll just tell you this, that we my I would typically go downtown because we had hybrid Mondays and Tuesdays. And those days, I was never really excited to do that. And I would kiss them goodbye really early in the morning, before they would even leave for school. Still in bed, not even up yet.
And when I left, I told them, like, I mean, won't be doing that anymore. I'll be able to take you guys to school more. I'll be able to see you more. I'll be able to pick you up from school more. And of course, they love that version of mom. And I know most kids do. So the more that we can provide that for our kids, the better.
Aneta (33:11.608): Yeah, absolutely. I ask a final question of all my guests, which is tied to the title of the podcast. What does it mean to you to live the width of your life?
Renee (33:23.505): I think it won't surprise you to hear me say that it's being the best version of a mother, a wife, and a person that I can be. To end in offering that same thing to everybody else around me, really filling my life with joy and presence and calm, and doing that with the people that I love the most.
Aneta (33:44.601): So good. Renee, thank you for joining me. I hope that the seats in your program fill up so quickly because I think that you can help so many individuals. And I just celebrate you for being such a bright light in this world.
Renee (34:00.562): Thank you. Likewise. Thank you so much.