Episode 164 transcript: From Panic Attacks to Purpose: How Gratitude Healed David McBee's Fear & Cancer Journey
[00:00:00] David: I once read somewhere that you can't really be angry or sad or upset if you're focused on gratitude, and I was like, okay, how true is that? And then I realized that if you are really focusing on something that makes you happy, whether it's just the fact that you're alive, all the way to the fact that you have your dream job, or you just bought a brand new outfit.
You know something that makes you feel good. If you focus on gratitude, you really don't have the mental capacity to multitask and be angry or sad or stressed about something at the same time. If you decide to focus on gratitude, that takes your whole energy and your frequency in another direction.
And that is away from the negativity.
[00:00:47] Aneta: We often hear people wishing us a long, happy, and healthy life, but what if the length isn't what matters most? What if instead, it's the breath depth and purpose of each day that matters most? Welcome to the Live the Width of Your Life podcast. My name is Aneta Ardelian Kuzma, and join me weekly as I interview guests who have made changes in their own lives to live more fully with intention, gratitude, and joy. Be prepared to be inspired by their stories of how they shifted their mindset, took courageous action, and designed the life that they always wanted to live.
Welcome back to Live the With of Your Life podcast. My guest this week is David McBee, and he's a highly accomplished keynote speaker and digital marketing expert. He has extensive knowledge, digital marketing, and he's also sought after as a marketing consultant and guest on various podcasts. In addition to these achievements, David is also the author of the popular children's book series, DJ's Off-Road Adventures.
And his passions extend beyond marketing as he actively pursues interests in reading, self-improvement, health, and outdoor activity, all while cherishing quality time with his family. This was a really impactful conversation for me. We talked about how David became an author and his adventure in writing the DJ series, and also how it's really helped other people, the readers, to overcome their own fears.
David also talked about a moment when he was diagnosed with an illness and how it changed his perspective on life, his approach to God, and also just the power of gratitude. It was a really impactful conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Take a listen.
David, welcome to the live, the width of your life podcast. I'm so happy to have you here with me today.
[00:02:34] David: I am very happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
[00:02:36] Aneta: Of course. And for those that don't know about your background, do you mind just sharing and telling us a little bit about your background and how you came to be this author? I would love to hear about your career and just your evolution.
[00:02:51] David: Okay. I grew up in the Midwest in Missouri in the eighties. And I thought I was going to be an actor. I thought I'd be the next Tom Cruise back when I was 17 years old. And I went to school for theater and thinking that was the right path, but I did not really go my way.
I got to play Eeyore in Winnie the Pooh for a summer, and then I realized I didn't really care for acting like I thought. After that, I transitioned into marketing, and I sold Yellow Pages ads. Remember those? Remember Yellow Pages?
[00:03:22] Aneta: I do.
[00:03:23] David: Yeah. And then I transitioned into the internet. I am an internet marketer, and I embraced Google before Google was really a popular thing. I'm one of Google's very first certified AdWords trainers. And then I've been doing internet marketing for a couple of decades. And I am like a serial entrepreneur. I always have these little side projects going on the side.
I did a lot of network marketing in my twenties and started a couple of small businesses. And then back in 2019, I decided to write a book, and that's how it started.
[00:03:57] Aneta: How do you just decide to write a book? Was this something that you've thought about before, or did you like children's books? What prompted you to say, I think I'm going to write a book, and I think it's going to be a children's book.
[00:04:07] David: Actually, the first book I wrote was a self-help book. And it's because I read a ton of them. And I was personally going through a lot of issues that I was trying to overcome, some anger issues and some OCD, and some relationship issues that I had with my family. And I documented that journey, and that turned into a book, and publishing a book was really rewarding.
As for the children's book, I actually had an adventure. that I felt translated into a children's story. And so I took my real-life adventure, and I hired an illustrator and turned it into a children's book.
[00:04:47] Aneta: What is the book about?
[00:04:49] David: I got it right here. It's called DJ's Off Road Adventures, and it's about a little jeep that goes out and gets big tires, and he wants to be tough and cool and go off-road.
And this was me. I had bought this jeep, and I took it to the shop, and I was putting big tires on it and a lift kit. And then DJ gets invited to go out to Moab, Utah, which is the Jeep playground of the world. People come from all over the world for these beautiful cliffs and trails and things.
And I went out there with these very experienced off-roaders, and I had a massive panic attack. I went up on this first trail, and it was like driving up the back of a sandworm that's emerging from the desert. It was like 15 feet wide, and my jeep is like doing this the whole way, and it's 70 70-foot drop on each Side, and I was just freaking out. I was like, Why are we driving? Here, like cars, should not be allowed. And my friends...
I'm like hyperventilating and freaking out, and I've just put the car in park, and I just was like, I need to go home to Kansas, where it's nice and flat. And my friends just came to my rescue; they got out of their Jeeps. They walked up next to me. I'm looking at them like, what are we doing here? And they're like, you got this, David, you can do it. And I pressed, and they were very patient with me. And I got over that first obstacle. And then I spent the next three or four days out in Moab, just exploring these places that you only see on Instagram.
And I turned my biggest fear into my biggest passion. I've been all over the country now in my Jeep, and I've gone to crazy places that people would not want to go. But when I got home, and I would tell people that story, they literally said, That sounds like a children's book, like you overcame your fear and your friends were guiding you, and you turn around and you're paying it forward. And now I take people off-roading, and I help them overcome their fears. And so that's how DJ was born.
[00:06:42] Aneta: So interesting. Have you ever had a panic attack before that moment?
[00:06:46] David: I actually had, I'd had two, and they were both on shelf roads and not everybody's familiar with that term. That's basically; I'm not necessarily afraid of heights. Like I can go to the top of a building and stay right on the glass. Even if it has a glass floor, I can stand on that. No big deal. I can go up in an airplane.
But if I am driving and a road that just drops off, I am frozen. And there were a couple of times when I had gone, and I was a passenger in a bus, like on vacation, we went from Durango to Silverton, and I had a panic attack in the bus. Yeah.
[00:07:20] Aneta: Did you think about this? Did you worry about having one before you went on the trip?
[00:07:26] David: Hundred percent.
[00:07:28] Aneta: That could probably have something to it.
[00:07:32] David: I'm at an age where I just don't want to let my fear stop me from accomplishing something or trying something new. And I was like, I'm going to do this somehow, some way. Little did I know I'd be driving up the back of a sandworm. I didn't imagine that. But I figured, even a cliff road should be safe enough. And I've done a lot of them, and I still get a little anxious about them. But like I said, I don't let it stop me.
[00:07:55] Aneta: No, I love that. And I love that you turned it into a children's story because it sounds like conquering your fear, doing it anyway, having your friends come, and you don't have to do it alone. So what is the response and the feedback then to the book?
[00:08:07] David: It's been awesome, actually. Like I got a text from my friend in Texas, and she said her son was afraid to go on a sleepover, although that was a birthday sleepover party, really little, and he said You know what, though, I'm going to be brave like DJ and I'm going to face my fear. And I was like, that paid for every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears and money that I put into the book. And then when people send me pictures of their little kids reading the books and stuff, it's the best.
[00:08:33] Aneta: Do you think you're going to continue to write books?
[00:08:35] David: There are actually four DJ books now. As of this recording.
[00:08:40] Aneta: My God. So, DJ is like a part of your life now.
[00:08:42] David: I got the whole gang here. There's the new one. So yeah, it's a passion. It's an obsession, if you will. Yeah, I love it.
[00:08:50] Aneta: I love that. You have a lot of interests. I know one of the other ones is health and wellness. So tell me a little bit more about when that started.
[00:08:58] David: I'm going to go back further than you might anticipate me going. When I was 43 years old, I had never exercised a day in my life. I wasn't terribly out of shape, like on the outside, it wasn't like an enormous slob or something, but I just never really exercised. But my father had open heart surgery when he was 43.
So as I approached 43, I was like, okay, I'd better start doing something different than he did. And so I started walking and lifting weights and exercising, and running. It's a lot of great things, and I started taking really much better care of myself. Didn't really change my eating habits much.
But I was exercising a lot more. Then two years ago, I had my 50-plus colonoscopy, just routine stuff, nothing to worry about. Turns out I had something to worry about after all. I did not have colon cancer per se, but they did discover some, what are called neuroendocrine tumors, in my colon.
[00:09:56] Aneta: What is that? I've never heard of that.
[00:09:58] David: Yeah, it's rare. People don't hear about it much, but it's basically a hormonal cancer that can create tumors in any of your endocrine systems in your body at any given time. So it could pop up in your pancreas, or your stomach, or your lungs, or your brain. And when people have it, it's often misdiagnosed, or okay, Steve Jobs actually had neuroendocrine tumors, but everyone knows Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer, right?
[00:10:31] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:10:32] David: Technically, he had neuroendocrine tumors in his pancreas. He didn't have pancreatic cancer. Aretha Franklin died of neuroendocrine tumors. Maria Menoudos has had neuroendocrine tumors. One in her brain recently. So they are out there, but you just don't hear them called that because they say, you have brain cancer or you have lung cancer.
[00:10:55] Aneta: Wow. That must've been completely unexpected because I've had the colonoscopy, and you're like, okay, it's a marker. I'm supposed to go in and get this done. How did that impact you?
[00:11:06] David: You know what? At first, I wasn't even that worried about it. I was like a little tumor, a little tiny little tumor in my colon. They'll knock that out. No big deal. But then, when they started doing tests, they discovered that I had a dozen of them in my liver as well. And so I'm talking to the doctors, and I'm like, before that, they were like, the prognosis is an easy fix, like a 98% survival rate.
We'll just cut these out. This is not a big deal. And then when they found them in the liver, they were like, that changes things a bit. And I was like, how much does that change things? And they said the average lifespan of a person who has what you have is X number of years, which I don't like to talk about. And that was the hardest day of my life.
[00:11:49] Aneta: Yeah. How are you today?
[00:11:52] David: So the good news is, they cut me open, they dug out all the tumors.
[00:11:57] Aneta: They do what they do.
[00:11:58] David: Like they literally carve them out of your liver. And then the ones they can't get to, they actually, I hope this isn't too visual, too graphic, but they actually stick a needle into the tumor and they electrocute it.
So it's called an ablation. So I had something like 47 staples, cut me wide open. I was out for eight weeks. And they got it all. They got every bit of it, or so they thought. Obviously, there's some microscopic stuff in there that doctors can't see, that this scanner can't see.
And then three months later, I had a scan, and I had a couple of new tumors already popping up. And my doctor said something to me that to this day, I hate that he said this, and I tried to get it out of my head, but he said, It's not a matter of if this cancer will kill you, it's just a matter of when.
And he literally said, David, the difference between you and other people is you now probably know how you're going to die. And I said, you haven't seen the shelf roads that I drive on. But the good news is that people can live with this for a very long time. And over the last two years, those two tumors have not grown or multiplied.
They're very tiny. I call them Fred and Barney because they're the size of Fruity Pebbles. And, they don't impede my life very much. I'm on some medication that makes me a little fatigued. It makes it a little hard for me to grow muscle mass. But I'm living a much healthier, happier life than I was before the cancer diagnosis.
[00:13:30] Aneta: Yeah. I first heard so many people who've had diagnoses, and even in my family, that it shakes you up and you suddenly reevaluate everything. How has this changed the way you approach life?
[00:13:41] David: Well, before the diagnosis, and remember I said I was dealing with some anger issues when I wrote that first book. I had a short fuse. I would get angry really easily, like left lane drivers. When you want to go faster than them and they're in the left lane.
There were times I was driven to road rage just over something so small. My daughter has ADD, which doesn't mesh well with OCD. And so her messiness and my obsession created a lot of battles. My obsession with being successful meant that I worked a lot and took on a lot of projects.
I always said yes to everything, no matter how much travel it involved or how many extra hours it was. And I loved my job. So I didn't really think I was stressed at my job, but in hindsight, now I realize I was really stressed at my job, but it was brought on by me, not by my managers, not by my company.
It was me holding myself up to a standard higher than even they would. Yeah. I think a lot of people do that. So today, I've lowered my own personal standards a bit. I can say no. I prioritize taking time out for myself. It's the middle of the day. I'm technically at work, but this is my lunch hour right now.
And this is how I'm choosing to spend it with you. And I take an hour every day and do something. Whether that's going out, I have a little campfire in my backyard, and I'll sit out there and read. I have a playlist of songs all about just hope. Every song is about hope, and I'll listen to that playlist and go for walks.
But I prioritize those things, whereas before I was like, I have too much work to do. I don't have time to just step away from my desk and go for a 10-minute walk. Now I say, I don't have time, not to. It's so important to take care of yourself because you don't know if you're going to have it tomorrow.
[00:15:38] Aneta: That's right. And no one else will permit you to do that. I always tell people that it's no one's going to permit you to say you really should go take that bath or go for a walk or whatever. We have to do that for ourselves, and we have to do it consistently. Not just when we feel bad proactively as well.
[00:15:54] David: Yeah, 100%.
[00:15:56] Aneta: Now, I know one of the things that you also love to talk about is gratitude. So tell me a little bit more about your gratitude practice and why it's so important to you.
[00:16:05] David: I once read somewhere that you can't really be angry or sad or upset if you're focused on gratitude, and I was like, okay, how true is that? And then I realized that if you are really focusing on something that makes you happy, whether it's just the fact that you're alive, all the way to the fact that you have your dream job, or you just bought a brand new outfit.
You know something that makes you feel good. If you focus on gratitude, you really don't have the mental capacity to multitask and be angry or sad or stressed about something at the same time. If you decide to focus on gratitude, that takes your whole energy and your frequency in another direction.
And that is away from the negativity. And so I do my very best to be grateful every day. I got this tattoo after my surgery. I don't know if you can see it, but it says gratitude, but it's backwards. So every morning I see it in the mirror
[00:17:05] Aneta: Oh, beautiful.
[00:17:06] David: And I think, okay, what are we grateful for today?
[00:17:08] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:17:09] David: I even have an alarm on my phone that goes off at nine o'clock every night. It says, What are you grateful for today? And my wife and I have a conversation. What were we grateful for today?
[00:17:18] Aneta: I love that.
[00:17:19] David: It wraps up the evening in a way that's okay, whatever stress, whatever BS went down today, we end the night thinking about what we're grateful for.
[00:17:28] Aneta: Yeah. We have a family text, and we always ask each other what we are grateful for today. And actually, this is a perfect reminder for me to do it. I haven't done it today yet. And I was like, because it's so nice to get the response. It's so nice to see that in the day, and also take a moment to pause and reflect on it.
What am I grateful for? But it's so nice to do before you go to bed, too, because it's a wonderful thing to fall asleep to these positive thoughts.
[00:17:53] David: And no matter how bad your day was, there's always something to be grateful for.
[00:17:57] Aneta: Absolutely.
[00:17:58] David: Just the fact that you can speak the words, I am grateful says that you're not mute, that you have a tongue and a mouth and a voice, I also keep these rocks on my desk and sometimes I keep one in my pocket, they're just smooth rocks And each time I touch one of these rocks it reminds me to think of something that i'm grateful for.
[00:18:18] Aneta: Yeah. It's so interesting. What else has changed in terms of your approach? Has anything changed in terms of mortality or the way you view spirituality or your connection to a higher source at all?
[00:18:31] David: No question about it. No question about it. I've had an on-and-off again relationship with god over the years. I think a lot of people do. I grew up in the church, and then when I studied theology in college, I was like, I don't really know if I believe some of the stuff that I've been taught over the years. I was definitely an atheist for a while, and then my kids were born and I was like, oh no, there's a god. There's definitely when you hold your son in your arms.
You're like, yeah, there's more here than just biology, and of course, when you get diagnosed with cancer, you want to turn somewhere, and some people get angry at God. I didn't really see much point in that. I feel like anger had a big role in why I got sick to begin with. So I decided to embrace a relationship with God.
I did not actually go back to church. I still struggle with organized religion and some of the dichotomy that goes on there and the hypocrisy. Not that it's true in every church, but it had been my experience. And I discovered a book called Conversations with God. Have you ever heard of it?
[00:19:39] Aneta: Oh yeah.
You know that I just started listening to it on Spotify, so I have to go back and listen to it. It's really long.
[00:19:46] David: Yeah, and in fact, there's more than one. There's a trilogy and then there's friendship with God. There's a book four. But in my opinion, now for your listeners who don't know, the concept is the author sat down and wrote an angry letter to God, and then was compelled to keep writing after he wrote the letter, and he wrote the sentence, Are you just venting or do you really want answers?
[00:20:10] Aneta: Ooh, chills
[00:20:11] David: I really want answers. I know, right? Now, whether or not you buy the fact that's actually the author speaking with God or not, what plays out in that book feels so true. And it feels so right to my soul when I read it or when I listen to the audiobook as well.
I feel like it answered a lot of questions that I had for 50 years, and I recommend that book to anyone who is struggling with their relationship with God. I feel like it is really on the right track.
[00:20:46] Aneta: Yeah. It's interesting because I think that many of us were raised in a formalized structured religion, or like you said, going to church and sometimes going outside of that and reading, listening, meeting new people, opening up, I think what it means to you personally, just brings you back to your faith in a stronger way than ever before. At least that's been my experience.
[00:21:11] David: Yeah. My faith in God, my faith in a relationship with God, my faith in what we are here for, has all been strengthened by my search for God in places other than church.
[00:21:21] Aneta: Can we talk a little bit about fear?
[00:21:24] David: Sure.
[00:21:24] Aneta: I've never been diagnosed with cancer, but I've had a couple of cancer scares. So when you're in between waiting to find out whether a biopsy is benign or not, it can be really scary. So what was your experience like waiting and then even afterwards in terms of your relationship with fear?
[00:21:44] David: I was waiting for the biopsy. I think the way I dealt with fear was to distract myself, not really think about it. Ironically, the most fear that I had was after the surgery when it was all gone. My biggest fear was it coming back.
[00:22:02] Aneta: Cause you don't know why you got it in the first place, right? That's,
[00:22:05] David: No one really knows what causes neuroendocrine tumors. It's some kind of hormonal imbalance, what they say. So I'm like, okay, was I doing something that caused this? What do I need to change to not have it come back? So it was during that time that I felt the most fear.
And I tell people this, that when you have had cancer or maybe you have cancer in your family, and you are expecting that you might have it one day. It's like having a monster locked up in a closet.
Yeah.
And you just got every, you got chairs up against the closet door. You've got 16 locks on that door. You're doing everything you can to keep that monster barricaded behind that closet door. Someday, there's a very good chance that he's going to pick the locks or he's going to grow stronger enough to push away the door. And that is a really hard thing. And I think every cancer survivor lives with that monster.
And I have a neighbor who just got diagnosed with a little bit of skin cancer. And she told me that her parents both had several different kinds of cancers, and she knew her whole life, it was just a matter of time. I'm a big believer in self-fulfilling prophecies.
And I wondered, do we bring this on ourselves? Do we spend so much time being afraid of cancer that it manifests through our stress? I don't know. I don't, I'm not a doctor, right? And some people would think I'm cuckoo for even saying that, but.
[00:23:30] Aneta: I think it makes sense, of course, everything impacts our physical body, and some things are within our control, and things that are not, but focusing on at least the things that are within our control, or sleep, what we eat, water, good quality food, and also releasing that fear. I think that, actually, anger resides in the liver. Has anyone told you that before? Yeah. Interestingly, you talked about anger a few times.
[00:23:57] David: Well, here's a funny element too, I used to read a lot of self-help books that told me I needed to have a positive attitude. So I would get angry about something, and then I would know I'm not supposed to be angry about this, so I'm going to be positive. And when my first book came out, people liked it. That's not the David McBee I know. How are you so angry? You're never that way. And I was like This is who I am on the inside.
[00:24:23] Aneta: Yeah, you bury it.
[00:24:24] David: I buried it. I buried the anger, and I had to learn, and even worse, if people were negative around me, I was like, I don't want to be around negative. Stop being negative. You need to be more positive. And I wouldn't let them have the freedom to express or experience their frustration, anger, fear, stress, whatever it was, right? And so I thought that self-help books were improving my life when really they were like a band-aid on a gushing wound.
[00:24:55] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:24:56] David: And I have learned that now if I have an experience that makes me angry, I need to go ahead and get angry and then get past it.
[00:25:04] Aneta: You have to release it from the body, or we will store it in, and it could turn into all kinds of things.
[00:25:12] David: can turn into 12 little neuroendocrine tumors in your liver. So I don't get angry like I used to, just cause who cares if someone's driving in the left lane, at least it's not cancer. Who cares if I'm struggling to pay my credit cards this month? At least it's not cancer. Like when you have that kind of perspective, what is there to get angry about?
[00:25:31] Aneta: Yeah. Oh my gosh. How often do you get scans?
[00:25:37] David: I get scanned every six months.
[00:25:39] Aneta: Okay. I have a good friend, he's eight years cancer free now and always leading up to his scans. He goes inward a little bit; it's definitely something that could be anxiety-inducing. So how do you deal with preparing for your scans and making sure that you stay positive and that you're more relaxed going into them, or is that just...
[00:26:00] David: I could honestly use a little advice in this area rather than giving it because I have a scan in about two weeks and it's been almost six months since my last scan, so right now is the time when I'm feeling the most anxious, the most afraid, the most, I even get phantom pain in my liver. Which is super weird because even when I had the 12 tumors, there was no pain. Why am I getting pain? I just don't know.
[00:26:28] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:26:29] David: It's a hard time for me right now. So I lean into the practices that I know help. Like I meditate more, I get more sleep. I listen to my music. I read. Talk to God. Whatever it is, I just lean into it a little more heavily, probably than two weeks after a scan, when it's like, Oh, it's great news.
[00:26:47] Aneta: Yeah. And you're focusing on all the things that are within your control. Which is the only thing we could ever do.
[00:26:53] David: A hundred percent.
[00:26:54] Aneta: Yeah. So what's next for you? You're a multi-passionate, continuing to work and write books, and off-road with your Jeep and all these other things. What's new?
What's coming up?
[00:27:04] David: That's a great question. My kids just moved out. My daughter went to college. My son went out and got himself a fiancée and a brand new house. And I've experienced the empty nest moment of life. My wife has us redoing the basement every weekend. So I think that's the next big project.
I might write another DJ book. I don't know. Every time I keep saying that this is the last one, this is the last one. And then something happens that inspires me to do another one. So there might be another DJ book. But yeah, I think the real goal now is just to slow down a little bit and spend some time with my wife, and spend more time traveling. We love to travel. So I think that's the plan.
[00:27:47] Aneta: That sounds like a great plan.
[00:27:48] David: Thanks.
[00:27:48] Aneta: So I ask everyone on the podcast what it means to them to live the width of their life. So David, what does it mean to you to live the width of your life?
[00:27:58] David: So in one of those books, somewhere, when I was reading about improving my life, I read something about an exercise that involved imagining that you are a ghost at your funeral and finding out what people say about you. And I asked myself, what do I want them to say about me?
I want them to say I was kind and maybe funny, easygoing. Helpful, trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. That's the voice law. And then I looked at my life, and I was like, I'm not some of the things that I want them to say about me.
Easygoing was definitely not on the list of things you would say about me. So I think what I think living the width of your life is being the person that you want to be remembered as while you're alive. It's about legacy. It's about creating memories in people that will last their lifetime. I really hope that at some point, some full-grown adult comes up to me and says, I grew up reading your DJ books. And that would be so fulfilling to me, right? Because I know I remember the books I read growing up and how much they impacted me, and how much the author took the time to create those things that would be the ultimate for me for living the width of my life is to impact people through my books or my speeches or whatever it is.
[00:29:28] Aneta: That's so beautiful. I love it. Much success on a clean scan in a couple of weeks, and also on the release of your next book. If people want to find your books or learn more about you or your podcast, where can they find you?
[00:29:44] David: All my books are on Amazon. Super easy. Just look for David McBee. They're all there. We're DJs Offering Adventures. And since I've been in internet marketing for 20 years, if you just Google my name, David McBee, you're definitely going to find me.
[00:29:57] Aneta: Sounds great. Thank you so much for your time today.
[00:30:00] David: Thank you so much.
[00:30:01] Aneta: Thank you for listening to today's episode. If today's conversation inspired you to dream again, break out of your comfort zones or reflect on what it means to you to live more fully, then please follow this podcast because every week you'll hear more stories from people just like you who took imperfect action towards their goals, created more joy and are living the life that they always dreamt of living.