Overcoming Fear, Owning Your Voice & Writing Your Truth with Editor George Verongos
[00:00:00] George: I think the magic for writing for me, I think it's so cool because you can literally write about whatever you want from the most amazing, incredible, fantastical events to the most horrible war scenes, to horrible people, great characters, to really benevolent characters. So it's like you really have a license to talk about whatever you want, and I love that.
[00:00:22] Aneta: Thank you for listening to today's episode. If today's conversation inspired you to dream again, break out of your comfort zones or reflect on what it means to you to live more fully, then please follow this podcast because every week you'll hear more stories from people just like you who took imperfect action towards their goals, created more joy and are living the life that they always dreamt of living .
Welcome back to Live the With of Your Life podcast. I'm so excited for my conversation today with my editor George Verongos, and George and I have been working together over the last three years. He worked on my live the Width of Your Life book and also worked on the journal and now on Lanterns of Light.
George was born and raised in the Midwest. He developed a lifelong love of books and music and as a high school dropout, he went on to graduate from Evergreen State College with concentrations in audio engineering and moderate American literature. And after a few years of playing in bands, he decided to continue his studies in secondary English education, and he also worked at his family's Greek restaurant.
And after earning his teaching license, he taught English and writing from New Jersey to Oregon and a few places in between. In 2010, he founded his literary services.net dedicated to providing independent authors like me, access to professional publishing services. Since then, George has edited many books, including works by bestselling and award-winning author such as Terry Lovelace, Dr. Ruth Solheim.
In addition, he has written and published a collection of short stories based on his childhood called My Dad Is Dead, and other funny stories, which is actually, so beautiful. You have to read that book. And he also co-wrote a screenplay with Lovelace based on his bestselling book Incident at Devil's Den.
He lives in the magical Northwest with his partner Zoe, and their feline overlord Baba Ghanoush. I loved our conversation. It was the first time George and I actually did this podcast. I've been asking him for years to record one with me, and we finally have the pleasure of doing so. I loved the conversation and I hope you will as well take a listen.
george, welcome to the Live The Width of Your Life podcast. I'm so excited you're here.
[00:02:40] George: Thank you, Aneta.
[00:02:42] Aneta: I have been looking forward to this for so long because I cannot believe that after working together for three years, that we have not done a podcast together.
[00:02:53] George: Well. I don't do very many
[00:02:57] Aneta: I didn't ask and so you didn't suggest, and here we are.
[00:03:01] George: You a lot. I was like, whoa. We'll see what happens.
[00:03:04] Aneta: Yeah, it was a polite delay for a while. And I thought, you know what? After you sent me so many amazing authors that you've worked with that have been guests on this podcast, I'm like, it's time to actually have George on the show, especially because the latest book Lanterns of Light just came out October 7th.
We're recording right now on the 27th. I can't believe it's been two years since I started this book, and I think, when did I reach out to you? Do you remember when I first reached out to say, Hey, I got a second book?
[00:03:39] George: I think it was pretty early in the new year, I think.
[00:03:42] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:03:42] George: it was really like, I've got some stuff that if you want to read, and I don't know if it's a book yet and I think we just did the little back and forth and then I was like, just send it and then we just, I don't, the rest is a blur, but we worked on a whole bunch and a bunch of weird stuff happened while we were working on it.
[00:03:59] Aneta: It's so crazy. The first book we did together Live the Width of Your Life, and I think I reached out to you. I literally came across your people. Listen to this podcast. Asked God like, send me an editor. I don't know. I want to self-publish. I don't even know. There's 20,000 profiles on Upwork.
I don't even know what I'm going to do. I found you. We connected. I was like, yes, this is the person I'm going to work with. And then I told you, I really would like this to come out before the end of the year. And I think this was like early November, so before Thanksgiving. And I wanted it up. And you were like just send it to me.
Let me take a look at it. I can't promise you anything. I can't even believe I asked you this, but we got it out before the end of the year.
[00:04:39] George: We did.
[00:04:42] Aneta: Did
[00:04:42] George: And when you sent it to me, I was like, man, that's going to be really short time. And then you sent it to me. It was like a million pages long. I was like, oh my God.
[00:04:53] Aneta: It is, it was like almost 400 pages, but you did tell me it was like the cleanest manuscript that you'd ever received,
[00:05:00] George: It was like, most of the editing that we did was mostly just about the delivery and the language and things like that. It wasn't really this doesn't make any sense, or stuff like that. It was pretty well thought out and I don't know why.
I don't even really remember, or if I even asked you how you got to that point. Like how did you get to write the first book? What was the inspiration?
[00:05:22] Aneta: Yeah. I think the inspiration was that someone I remember reading somewhere or hearing someone say, write the book that you want to read, write the book that you wish existed. And what I knew for myself, and I knew for my friends and my clients is we are time starved. We don't have a lot of time and yet many of us purchase books.
We consume self-help books. And then we don't apply them. They sit on our shelf, we donate them, we do whatever. And I thought, no, I really feel like taking the daily action is what's really important to make significant change in one's life. And so I thought, what would that look like if I had a nice daily devotional that really carried people from the beginning of the year till the end.
They could either read it as daily, they could open it up at any point and see what message, the universe had for them. And, I actually signed up for a woman who was a publisher, one of her courses on how to put together a book proposal. And then the winner was going to get, the contract and all these things.
And she actually wanted me to turn it into a chapter book, I don't even know if I shared this with you, and make it more of a business book. And I'd already written the book by myself. I gave myself a timeline. I was like, I'm going to write this many hours a day, this many days, and I'm going to get it done in, four or five months or something. And I did. And then when she saw it and she wanted it to be turned into a chapter book, I sat on the book. I did.
[00:06:51] George: Oh my god.
[00:06:52] Aneta: I know. I was like, put myself on a project plan and I was like, you're not getting up until you write it. I don't care if it's not good, that day's not good, you'll edit it. But I set myself. It didn't get to that George. It was actually okay. And then I sat on it because I didn't know what to do with this. It was advice that was coming from a professional. I'd never written a book before. I'd never published a book. And I tried to think about how would I structure this book in a way that was more of like a chapter and I couldn't.
Like I knew internally it wasn't the right thing to do. And then I sat in meditation one morning as I do every morning and I heard a really strong voice say, go publish your book. And i'm like, okay, it's God telling me go do it. He's like, you already wrote your book. And then that morning I just okay, let me find an editor. Let me get it out before the end of the year. And that's what happened. And the rest is history. I think we had it out like December 27th or something.
[00:07:55] George: Yeah, well because the book starts on January 1st, so it was perfect timing.
[00:08:00] Aneta: Yeah. And so that one was faster than the second one was. As people have listened, they know November of 2023, so now this was like a year after the first book. I heard it's time to start writing your second book and that's when I started quietly. I didn't even share anything with you yet.
Started quietly writing the second book Lanterns of Light not really sure. Didn't want to do it. So I wasn't on an accelerated timeline this time. And then I finally, kept getting these nudges and signals that I really did need to get the book out this year.
And so that's when I left you. I don't even think it was a text. I think it was a really long voice memo just saying, I have this thing God told me to do and I'm not sure if it makes sense, and I don't know if you want to work with me on it. And I gave you like every out, it was probably like an eight minute voice memo.
And then you look and you're like, just send it to me. And you're like, no, I think we should do this.
[00:09:02] George: It's great. It's such a great idea. This space, which is a good thing, but like the self-help spiritual space is exploding, which is really cool from a collective perspective that more people are getting turned onto it and not being so reliant on old ideas or what they grew up with or whatever.
But lanterns of light has so many layers and every time I would go through it, I'd realize something else that was really cool and unique about it and how that it's accessible to literally everybody. If you can read, there's something in it for you and it kind of leads you.
It leads you through you connect with the reader, which is a huge thing for these types of books. I tell everybody, I work with every author you got to connect with those readers. because as soon as people realize Hey, you're just like me.
You have the same issues, the same thoughts, the same problems, the same worries that I do, and that just opens them up to all of your ideas and thoughts and brings them into your world rather than you should do this, you should do that kind of thing.
[00:10:05] Aneta: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:06] George: So I really like it. I think it's great. And I think it's a style of structure for a book like that, when people realize how different it is, they're really going to try to imitate that. I think it's going to become like a new way to structure. There's a couple basic ways to structure self-help books or spiritual books, but you've melded them together and then put like this narrative sheen over it. So it's entertaining, it's educational.
I mean, I grew up in the church, I read the Bible. I think I even studied it my first year of college in an English class. But I don't remember everything, and just hearing those Bible passages and the way you make them relatable. How they affect our lives now. It's amazing.
It's not like this is the bible. It's like, I just start of my bible. It relates to you it relates to me, and this is what's going on.
[00:10:54] Aneta: Your encouragement kept me going because it's really lonely writing. There's something that is so beautiful about it and I find it meditative and I find definitely co-creating what God, but also it could be. The voices in our heads can get in the way. And I don't know how many times I texted you, I'm like, does this suck? Please be honest.
because
[00:11:17] George: I got a lot of text like that.
[00:11:20] Aneta: I think that's one of the things I want to talk about too, is you and I just have this amazing rhythm that I appreciated so much. Like when I talk about. You and what I've referred you to so many people friends and colleagues I say George is like my editor.
Yes. But George is also my friend. George is my therapist, George is my coach. George is my cheerleader, he is my mirror. Like all these things, I think that it's not a transactional relationship. And so for people that tell me that they've had that experience with other editors, I can't even imagine what that feels like to be writing and to be in the vulnerable state and to have your partner, the person that's supposed to be your partner on this journey, who is closest to the work that you're doing, besides you.
I get emotional thinking about it for it not to be someone who you feel like is holding your hand the whole time. And not in a weird way, but in like a, I'm here with you. And I think that we just had, even from day one, like it was just such a nice rhythm and it just always felt very safe.
So how do you create that? How do you cultivate that with your clients?
[00:12:35] George: I have such a deep respect for the craft of writing, and I grew up loving, I loved to read. I was one of those kids that would like, be under my covers with the flashlight reading fantasy novels, Piers Anthony. And then I remember I discovered Stephen King and I read Salem's lot and at Bloom like, I was so scared.
I was so afraid counting Barlow would be tapping at my window some night, so I've always liked that. And I also know that from writing myself. That it is very insulated. You're very alone. And a lot of times what I think the magic for writing for me, I think it's so cool because you can literally write about whatever you want from the most amazing, incredible, fantastical events to the most horrible war scenes, to, horrible people, great characters, to really benevolent characters.
So it's like you really have a license to talk about whatever you want, and I love that. And your characters have to be realistic and carry out those actions. But I just tell people that respect their work because I've been there. I'm there, I'm a writer as well.
And also I taught English for over 10 years. Middle school and high school. And, that's a lot of emotions there on the daily and just my personality, I try to be open and I don't want people to judge me by what I write I just try to keep an open mind and I guess, it's just a natural thing. I think one of the things that really keeps me going and excites me about editing and I've told you this a million times, is that I really get a rush from the fact that I'm helping somebody like you write a book that's going to touch.
Thousands of people, tens of thousand. Who knows how big they, anything could get. Just somebody mentions your name or the name of the book that it's incredible. Or for people like, you go on your retreats or watch your podcast. I was like, the fact that I get to help you help other people, I love that because that's really like from a spiritual perspective, they say you either want to help people or you want to help yourself kind of thing.
And I just want to help people. My motto from the first day that I started literary services was that I'm here to help you get your book out there, help you navigate how to do it. Because people don't realize all the fiddly, ridiculous, unnecessary things that go into publishing a book.
And it's a lot of stuff that normal people can't be bothered with remembering, but I've done it so much. I try to make that aspect easy for clients as well. And I just try to be myself and be open with them, and there's some people are just like, no, you're not for me.
And which is fine because I know that the people I'm supposed to work with are going to be drawn to me. So I don't even worry about that anymore. I don't even go looking for jobs anymore. I hardly ever put any feelers out for projects because I've got so many repeat authors lined up, ready to go. So very grateful for that.
[00:15:29] Aneta: I can't even imagine like not working with you. That's the thing. I'm like, unless you choose to fire me. But I'm like, there's still that, but it's just one of these things where you just feel like the closer you get and the more you know the person and the trust is there, the rhythm is there and just the curiosity and understanding it just becomes shorthand and I think that it's so amazing.
And the other funny thing that you and I have going, which I think is awesome, is, I am an Eastern Standard time, and I wake up at four 30 in the morning and you are in the Pacific Northwest, and so you're three hours behind me, but you're also a night owl. And so when we wrote the first book, like it was amazing because every time I woke up, I'd have something from you, I'd work on it, send you something back, you'd get it whenever you were starting to work on it.
And the next day I would have something again. And it was just like a perfect rhythm. And it worked out, I think so well for us. So I was like, oh, this is fantastic.
[00:16:26] George: I think that's why we got the Live The Width out in the amount of time that we did. Plus it was so clean to begin with that it was just like, here's an edit, here's your response, here's my edit back, here's your edit. And we just like, and I remember that was pretty much the only thing that you and I focused on outside of our families and our personal lives, that everything else was like no, no reading for pleasure, no movies, no going out to dinner.
It was just like, get this book out. We got two weeks to do it And also, I forgot also the amazing thing was that it was published so quickly because a lot of times at that time Amazon was being really slow and taking weeks, which sometimes that happens. When I saw that was happening, I was like, oh God, I hope we get it in time. And it was amazingly quick.
[00:17:12] Aneta: That was such a blessing, because we weren't sure, we did our part and we're like, okay, we're going to toss this. And then it all turned out exactly as it was supposed to. And I think that was just for me, the stickler, like I want people to be able to start January 1st, because I'd like to start January 1st. So that was more of a personal control issue that I had. But I'm sure that whatever timing would've been fine.
[00:17:32] George: I think I preoccupied you too, though. Kept you from being nervous about I'm about to publish my first book.
[00:17:38] Aneta: Yeah, I was focused on just like getting it out, doing the thing. And with this one, I think I was much more, it's interesting, I was so interested in making that one like an Amazon bestseller and we did and did all the things, but with this one, I just felt like I want to get it out there.
I want people to get early readers. I want people to put the stuff. I'm just really turning it up to God to just do whatever he wants to do with this book. It was a divine assignment, so I'm like, I wrote it, I followed your instructions and we'll see. But no, it's actually quite amazing to get the feedback and sometimes people will say you write so simply.
Sometimes I get like in my head going, like I'm writing for, a second grader. But then I think no but it helps me understand these stories that I may have read, like you said in the Bible, or these stories in a way that sticks with me. And I think my friend Jen wrote that reading the book is like having a one-on-one conversation with me.
And I'm like, I love that. I want people to hear my voice and to feel it sounds just like me.
[00:18:42] George: Absolutely. And that's important too, I think especially in the self-help and spiritual space that you want people to see that who you are and what you've done and that you've gone through the same things, think the same things they do. I understand what people say that you write simply, but it's not simple like that.
It's more like it's accessible because if it was simple, it'd be really repetitive and boring. It's not repetitive. This does never happen to you, but I often will give people word counts. Like I've seen the word, a lot of people use words like look or looking in fiction when it's like people naturally look at each other.
You don't have to say so and so looked at somebody in case it's really important to this scene. So I'll do things like, there'll be like 80,000 word manuscript. One of my notes will be like, you used the word look or looking 500 times in your whole manuscript, so keep an eye on that.
That to me, is an aspect of maybe oversimplified in writing. I think that the accessibility that you bring to writing and keep it interesting is really the magic. I think that's what keeps me interested and also when I'm editing, it's like I'm not focusing so much on like little mistakes.
I'm more able to focus on the big ideas and how people are going to receive them, which is a big thing. I think a lot of, when you're talking about the transactional editing, I think that they just don't put themselves in that space or understanding like what the reader is going through. It's tough out there to be an author.
[00:20:12] Aneta: It is, and I think the other thing that you always did for me too, especially with this book, was you challenged me to say, how could you say this actually in a way that is simpler for some of the stories where it's maybe people don't know this story, or maybe people have never heard of the El Camino.
Like how would you explain it to them in a way that they would understand? Doesn't take a bunch of time to do? And so that was just always nice to have someone else like you looking at it and saying. What if someone never heard the story of the Prodigal son? And what's the impact there?
But I think the more you and I worked on each of these chapters too, I just kept finding new things and it's like the words they're not static somehow. I don't even know how to describe it. Even now I'm reading the book as a reader and not an author. The first time I did that after the book came out.
[00:21:01] George: Did I write that?
[00:21:02] Aneta: I know, I'm like, wow, that's so crazy. And then something new will still come through and I'm like, okay. As I'm doing the journal prompts and I think the journal prompts and the embodiment exercises were something you and I really talked about as well and my own personal journal entries, which I was so scared to include. I'm like, people are going to be like, be in my head.
[00:21:23] George: I love those. I love them. That's like the icing on the cake, also by the time you get to the end of the chapter, and I know I've said this before to you dozens of times that the way you bring people into the more complicated ideas, it's like you really usher them in.
So once you start, you're like, oh, you're hearing the story. And then Aneta explains her experience and how it relates to her and what's happened to her or what she's seen. And then you go even a step deeper into really breaking down how the scripture ties into our everyday lives and how we think and you know, being a human and it gets really complicated, but you keep it accessible.
That to me is, I don't know where that came from. When I saw that happening, I was like, wait a second. It's really taking people deep. And if people get that far into a chapter, they might not understand everything when they get to the end, but they're still going to keep reading because it's compelling to them.
And you've made it. It's not oh, I don't know what that means. No one would ever pick up your book and be like, oh, I don't understand that. Because you explain everything to them. I love it. I think it's great. It's so accessible.
[00:22:26] Aneta: I was so worried. Because sometimes when I read scripture like that, the way came to be is just, there is usually something going on in my personal life that then a scripture verse will come to mind. It's almost like it just drops in and then I'll go try to find it. And I'll be like, wait, what was the whole thing? And this just happened yesterday where I was thinking one of the things I definitely didn't want this book to do was to feel judgmental. Or prescriptive. Or dogmatic or any of these things. And I was like, this verse came to mind where Jesus said that he didn't come for the sick.
I mean, he didn't come for the healthy, he came for the sick. Right. Physician doesn't, In business basically to cure the healthies here for the sick. And I was like, wait, what's the verse? What is it? What's the story here? And that's because he was judged by the religious authorities, because he was eating with quote unquote sinners or people who were not, legalistically, following all the rules or were somehow that we're lesser than, and that's exactly where Jesus spent his time.
And so for me, if somebody finds a relationship to the divine, to their creator, to their God, through any of these stories, that's beautiful thing. I'm not here to tell them what their journey or their path should be. But that's the verse where, I'm like, oh yeah, that's what Jesus was saying too. So I go find it and I'm like, okay, yeah. He said the same thing. because this was happening at the time.
[00:23:57] George: Oh yeah, and that's another great point too. It's not religious at all. It's spiritual, which is what everybody who follows or subscribes to any religious dogma has to come to its conclusion. That it's all about spirituality, what everything that you're doing and following whoever, that's for spiritual reason.
That original idea was to bring your spirit up and heighten your vibration and, for everybody, for the collective and not just the way some people tend to manipulate books written by people who can't defend themselves directly. I think that's really cool and it's very open and I mean I grew up in the church and then I was like completely rejected it and it was like, I'm an atheist and then I got very spiritual in the past 10 years or so, and it just keeps getting more.
So having that perspective, it's just so open. You can't be offended by it. If you are like a super conservative Christian or if you're super conservative Muslim or anything, or an old school Buddhist or whatever, it's like there's lessons in there for everybody. I love it.
[00:24:58] Aneta: Yeah. Oh, thank you. I'm already like wanting better to be better. Speaking of better, I can't can't believe it's taken me three years to read your book, one of your books. And I couldn't put it down. I literally was just telling a friend this weekend that you are one of my favorite authors ever. You are writing George. I swear your writing is so beautiful. It's like lyrical. It's so good. And tell us the full title of your book. The one with the short stories.
[00:25:31] George: It's called My Dad is Dead and other funny stories because it's lot of dark humor in there.
[00:25:38] Aneta: There is a lot of dark humor. When did you write it?
[00:25:41] George: Oh man. I did not think you would ask that, because I don't even remember. I used to teach English. I used to be a high school English teacher and Zoe and I were living in Oregon, in 12th, in Oregon. And if she doesn't drive, so I would drive her to work in the morning, she'd work at a veterinary clinic.
I drive her to work in the morning, like 40, 30 minutes, whatever, commute in Oregon right outside of Portland in opposite direction to get her to work super early in the morning. Then I had to be at work at an hour away where school start, you had to be like at 6 45, 7 or something like that. So I'd be commuting like me who can't seem to go to bed before four o'clock in the morning is like getting up at four and doing all this stuff and driving around all across Oregon to go to work.
And then like after I get out of work, I come and pick her up, up and she would often be working lot. I think she might have been working 10 hour days at the clinic, something like that.
So I'd just come straight from work and I would sit in the parking lot or at her vet clinic. And I had a laptop that I had from school, and I just started writing because when my dad died and I was like, just about to turn 13, so much stuff was happening I guess I didn't really get a chance to process it so much because it was like, you're the man of the house now. And my mom, of course was like, devastated and pretty much, for years after that and I wasn't emotionally capable of understanding what was happening, so I just started writing and I would sit there and write. I write short stories and I read a couple short stories in the past and everything, but I really had the time to focus on it.
And then I just started doing it whenever I had spare time. Then I was like. I'm going to start editing books. Why not? I love it. This is really what I want to do. So I started doing that and as I transitioned over, I just was like, I'm going to put out a book.
And then I finally did it. So it took a lot, man. That was like, I know the question was when did I start? I didn't even hit it was like I don't even know. Years. It must have been like 2016, 2015, 2016, maybe. And in that time we went and spent a year at my mom's in the Midwest, in Indiana because her health was not great. And one of my sisters was her only caregiver and she was trying to run her own business. And so we went there and spent a year there.
Because I got fired from my teaching job because of cuts. Were happening in Oregon, so we're like, my mom needed help. So we moved there for a year and that was when I really poured it on because I was trying to start my business and wanted to get the book out. So that was and also I was like at home where I grew up, which now I know.
I was like, now I know why we had to go back there, and bless Zoe's heart. There was a bazillion reasons why she could have been like, Nope, it's over. I'm not, we're not doing this. But she endured it for a year. And I think that being in that old vibe really helped me solidify some ideas and stuff.
And helped me recently on a phone call just out of the blue. You reignited that passion for writing those short stories. Because I've been struggling with what to do next for a long time. I've been writing and writing. I've got all these novel started. They're just not hitting the way I wanted them to.
[00:28:48] Aneta: You actually picked up the phone. So I started the book, I think it was, I don't know, Wednesday night, and then I think I called you on Thursday after I did this panel discussion. So I started the book. Didn't want to go to sleep. I was getting so far into it the next morning I was like reading it on my Kindle while I'm getting ready, reading it in between meetings.
I couldn't put it down. I had a hair appointment so I was like, oh, this is perfect. I've got two hours to sit here and I could just read your book. And I finally finished it. And then I called you and I said to you, I'm calling you like a Gen Xer. My kids would be like, that's so rude. Who just called anymore?
And I just needed to tell you how much I loved your book. And it was funny. It was so touching. I felt like I was there with you and so much of your Greek, both of us are Balkan, right? Like your Greek Orthodox upbringing and my Romanian Serbian Orthodox upbringing.
And I felt like I was there with you and I was like, oh yeah, I took Moka to lunch and it didn't feel good and I was made fun of by my name and all these things. I'm like, there are so many things we had in common. And it does conclude with, your dad's passing of course, which I knew was going to happen because I knew your story, but also the title of the book.
But it was so good and I just thought, you need to do more of these, George. And so I just wanted to call and tell you. I'm like, I just love this so much. And I really think that the way you write is just it's captivating in a way. I don't even know what the right word is because sometimes you, we skim over things. I didn't want to skim even a word. Like even your punctuation is like exactly where it's supposed to be.
[00:30:24] George: I had to make up words.
[00:30:25] Aneta: It's nothing extra, nothing like missed. It's just was so good. And I told Dorel, I go, you have to read George's book, because I'm like, you're going to like it. And he wants to finish mine first because he hasn't finished it yet. And then he is on to yours. But I do hope you continue to write because you are so talented and you can tell that you love words and yeah.
[00:30:48] George: I appreciate it. That you did that phone call motivated me to, I had been asking the universe, my guides, anybody that would listen. I was like, please show me the direction I need to go. I think I told you the weird psychic communication thing. Didn't I?
Okay, well that happened. And Zoe's like, you've got to write that down, write that down. And I have, and I'm working on it. Then when I talk to you, I was like, this is an entertaining story.
And it really fits in this is horrible, but also a lot of funny stuff happens as well, and the weird thing is too, that like when I started writing it, I was completely not very spiritual. I was mildly, because I grew up like, you can do anything you set your mind to and things like that.
But it wasn't necessarily like you control your reality. But just a little bit of that hinting, and then when I started to get more spiritual and discover, teachers like Abraham Hicks and Bahar and reading about Neville Goddard and his interpretation of the Bible, which is mind blowing.
Because at the time I was like, Bible, no, no way. Get it out of here. But I just happened to, I think I put on like an audio book and fell asleep and that was the next one that started playing. And I heard it and I woke up and I was like, huh, that's interesting. It's not really opened. I was really cracked open then, and I think that writing that book prepared me for the idea of that our lives are more our souls carry on. It's not just you're here and then you die and that's it. And you're worm food. Because I was very staunch about that. After
Going to church, I was like, this is ridiculous. We're just carbon and then we just go to the ground and that's it. So I went all around both sides of the spectrum. And so now I think it's just reflects that the humor in the book. Some people might be like, this is not something you should joke about. But also at the same time it's only life.
We live billions of them. So kind of interesting that way. because I don't really write about those things, about the spiritual things, but I have a lot of authors that I've worked with that do, and I love that stuff and I'm really into it. But I like to sneak it into my narratives a little bit here and there.
[00:32:46] Aneta: Yeah, you do. Because you told me. I didn't know this about you. You work with like pastors from the deep South. And you also work with, people like me who are very much consider myself a Christ follower, a Christian, but also have so much time in the spiritual space and studied so many comparative like done comparative religion courses.
And then you've got, supernatural, esoteric, like you're all over the place with the people that you work with, which I think must be absolutely amazing. You get this purview into people's thinking and their experiences. What have you learned about the human experience working with all the different clients that you have?
It's a loaded question, but.
[00:33:24] George: Oh, so much. It's also made me a more sensitive person. When I go out now, if I go out in public or whatever, it's I'm like, I shine your light, George. I'm just like, shine your light on people, and I've always been, joking around and BS with the cashier at the grocery store or whatever, but now I'm more cognizant of we live in a really small town now, moved from Seattle to the Ocean Shores. There's 7,000 people here. Our population, even though there's a lot of tourist activities in the summer, so you see the same people, there's one grocery store that everybody goes to, there's one pharmacy, stuff like that.
So it's like, you know, everybody, it's very Mayberry. Yes. So it's really cool. You can like, oh, I try to be as positive and push that out as much as I can. And I learned that from just dealing with all types of different authors, and their personal lives. And you do, like you said before, like I learned so much about them, and what they're feeling like and, I have a lot of authors that I haven't told anybody this, but I'm going to tell you because you're my editor kind of thing,
[00:34:21] Aneta: Yes.
[00:34:22] George: Even though it's not in the book.
[00:34:25] Aneta: Isn't it amazing you hold all our secrets?
[00:34:28] George: Yes. Editor slash therapist slash whatever needs to be done.
But yeah, I do have a recurring client who has a publishing company that does just, Baptist religious books and Pentecostal books and stuff like that.
And it's mostly just like interpretation of Bible passages and more localized things, but it's funny because I'm able to be more particular now of who I work with. Just like, if they vibe, if I feel good about it, I just go for it, and so there is like all these kind of crazy components, even there's so many different personalities and ideas in like the spiritual workspace.
Some of the people that I sent to you that you interviewed on your podcast we're all have a general understanding of where each other's coming from. But it's so interesting to see like their specific experiences and what sort of formed their thoughts and their beliefs. I love that stuff.
It's so interesting and it really opened me up. The first book I did was a huge book. The first book that I really did for somebody was called Incident in Devil's Den by Terry Lovelace, who is now is like a dear friend of mine. He and Zoe are friends. She sends him Reiki all the time and he's just turned out to be a really good friend.
And I've done several books with him, his book was, he was abducted by aliens. He wrote about his abduction back in the seventies. And it blew my mind because I was like, yeah, I don't know about aliens. Maybe. Yeah. Seems kind of weird. But it blew my mind and I was like, this guy is amazing. And he became a bestselling author and he's been on like all the podcasts he's been on Linda Moten Howell.
He's been on the George Norry show. He's been all over the place. Big conferences, huge UFO conferences, international conferences and stuff. Amazing. He really opened my eyes to a lot too. And I was like, wow, this is really cool that I can't believe that the first decent book I've done. Like it really blew up, it was incredible. It really got me going. That really got the gears turning for me.
[00:36:23] Aneta: Wow. How many authors or books are you working on at any given time? I guess what's the most you've worked on at one time.
[00:36:31] George: Man, sometimes it depends because sometimes if I do like a fiction series, like this past year, I think it's been about a year I started working with this author who also has become a really good friend. Her name's Judy Camarita and she lives in Texas. She just turned 70 not too long ago and been writing her whole life and had all these books.
She has eight books ready ideas for eight books, but didn't publish them. Or anything like that. So she decided she wanted to publish. She just happened to see my website that wasn't even through Upwork or something like that. She saw my website and I get an email out of the blue, which happens a lot now, which is weird.
Get an email out of the blue and be like, hey, I saw you on here. I'm sure I might get some from this. I saw you on a Aneta's podcast. And I talked to her. She'd never shared her writing really with anybody. And she took writing class. She's been running for 30 plus years and she published her first book, at 70.
And we did three books, three fantasies. There are fantasy series, fantasy kind of romance series. Really good writer. We did three books of like 120,000 plus words each in a year.
[00:37:41] Aneta: Oh my gosh. Wow.
[00:37:44] George: Yeah and she's fantastic. She's a fantastic writer. It's amazing. And waiting until she's 70, what to actually do it, was like, it's a inspirational story. I just can't get her to go on any podcast or to promote herself enough so people hear that story. But I tell everybody that will, listen.
[00:37:59] Aneta: Send her to me. Yeah, just send her my way.
[00:38:02] George: I've been trying. I was like, Hey, I know somebody you could probably, ease you into the podcast realm and, so we'll see what happens. But, things like that, like I worked on her pretty much hardcore last year, almost exclusively, because we had so much work to do and it was great.
They're such great books. I'm so proud of them. But like now people have different schedules and like right now I've got six projects going for other people. But you know what, I spend a week or two with your manuscript to send it back, and some people take a couple days, some people take months.
That's another thing I think that people like about me is that I work on your schedule. I'm like that's important that you are able to focus as much as you can. I don't want you to worry. That's another reason why, and people tell me this all the time. Oh, if you charged by the hour, you'd make so much more money.
I was like, but that's horrible to make people go, you'd be thinking while you're writing, okay, I wrote for three hours. That's this much money. That's $150. He's $50 an hour, I got to hurry. And then your book sufferers. And then if your book sufferers, nobody buys it. And then you're not happy.
And then it's my fault as well. And then you don't come back to me and you don't write. it just doesn't make sense to me. I like to know how much you're spending, what's going to happen. And then we just focus on your work.
[00:39:15] Aneta: Yeah. No, it's so true and then you have some clients like me where it's daily, let's turn it around.
[00:39:21] George: That's all part for the course.
[00:39:23] Aneta: Yeah, exactly. No, but I think that you were just so attentive to my schedule too. You knew I had the Morocco retreat and so we talked about where are we going to get it to. To the point before the retreat, and then what's the plan when I come back. And so that felt good to know that I think we got to a certain place and then we came back, we were able to pick it back up. And then how about that photo?
[00:39:47] George: Oh my God. That was insane. That was insane. I was like, are you punking me? What is this? Is that ai? What's going on?
[00:39:56] Aneta: Yeah.
[00:39:57] George: When I saw the picture. I saw the look on your face, you're like, you're trying to be cool too but you could not hide your surprise. Like, I can't believe this just happened.
[00:40:06] Aneta: My heart was pounding. We drove out into the desert, the Agafay desert we are going to do camel rides and. listen to some good music out there and eat in a tent and all this beautiful stuff. And when we walked in it was like dusk and there were lanterns, like as far as my eye could see lined up in the desert.
And we walked in and my daughters were like, mom, it's your Lanterns Of Light. And I was like, oh my gosh. And so they took lots of photos of me and I was like, even walking around the video I do, I looked like so confused because I was like it, I just felt like God was like winking at me. Like it's all good. I told you just to write the book, finish it. There were witnesses. Yeah, we try to make that the cover and it just still didn't feel right. And then it's so beautiful on the back I think it's just perfect.
[00:41:00] George: It's such a great experience. It was so funny too because like I knew you were busy and you're posting all those awesome pictures and videos, which were in God, it looked so beautiful. It was incredible. And then I get this message from you with the picture, and it was just like, why are you messaging me? You're in Morocco doing a retreat, and I get this message like, look at this.
[00:41:19] Aneta: I know I had to share it with you because I knew you'd be like.
[00:41:22] George: It's so crazy that happened. Did they do that all the time? That just seems so weird.
[00:41:26] Aneta: I know. It was just so amazing. I just think if our eyes are open, I think we see things that we wouldn't normally or ordinarily experience. And so for me. Some people might go of course you're going to see lanterns in Morocco. I'm like, yeah, I did at the markets, but I didn't expect them to be lined up in the desert, creating this path for me. I'm like, okay.
[00:41:48] George: I also happened to write a book called Lanterns Of Light.
[00:41:49] Aneta: Yes. It was so incredible. There was just a lot. I think that was interesting on the journey. I'm always curious too. I know for me, as I was going through and I was like, re-looking at everything and editing, we were going back, sometimes it's so arduous.
I'm like, I'm reading this chapter again. It loses some of the I don't know, for me, like it's something I got to get through. So I'm curious for you how you keep your interest fresh and how you're able to just still continue to pay attention to the details and read something that you've read hundreds of times and still, notice and make suggestions. How do you do that? How do you clean your palate, and just start over.
[00:42:30] George: I am terrified that someone's going to tell me I did a horrible job and I'm wrong. No that used to be the case, but I try to read stuff from different reader's perspectives, but just typical reader perspectives. As somebody who doesn't know about the content so much or whatever.
I'm like, right now I've done a couple books about narcissism by therapist. I'm working on it one right now, in the middle one right now. And so I've learned a lot about psychology and narcissism and things like that, but also it's like when I'm doing a book like that, I want to know, like I see something that's I need to understand that.
And so I'll go and do a little bit of research or read up a little bit, to get a little bit of background so I can actually give some sort of decent feedback that. It means something isn't just, rhetoric and oh, or just about grammar. You know what I mean?
Grammar great. If you're worried about have proper grammar, proper spelling, word with a word grammar checker is fine. That's been around forever. You can use that all you want. But if you want to really write a book, you need a good editor. And the editor should be able to learn what you're talking about, not bring their own opinions in, except if it's opinions about writing.
And even when I give people opinions about the writing, I say some people might feel this way about what you're saying, or some people might not understand that, or, can you explain that a little more? Or it might be more accessible, so I don't ever tell people like, this is wrong. I just say, this is something you might consider changing or whatever.
So it's just, a lot of times I'll read the book more than the writer themselves will read the book. I get a lot of books. People like, I don't want to it anymore. I think you might have said it a couple times. I'm tired of reading my book, but I understand that, and also I read so many books, working and I try to read recreationally as well, that it is exciting.
And also I learn a lot from my clients. I learn a lot from editing your books. I've learned a lot about, not just about the content, but about writing itself. Like you're a voice, your writing voice is so authentic. When people say that, it's sitting there talking to you and I know I've said that to you a million times too.
I always tell when it's a good book like that. I say, I'm sitting at your kitchen table having coffee or tea with you and we're just talking about whatever. It's really relatable and it's open and your emotions, your vibration, your personality really come through in your book naturally.
You're really good at that. A lot of people need help with that. And a lot of times, like that's what I try to get out of people. When we do fiction, I tell them to consider it like it's a big slab of clay, and we're going to be. All the stuff that you've written, just don't censor yourself.
Just write all your stuff. Don't start editing. And then we'll chip away at the chunk of marble and there'll be a beautiful sculpture underneath when we get done with it. And a lot of people get mad at the beginning because they're very frustrated and there's a lot of red marks and things like that.
But that's just how tracks changes work. And at the end they'll be like, it's good. Everything works out.
[00:45:19] Aneta: Yeah, I am sure everybody has their own process and I took a creative writing class, I think in college, but I didn't take writing courses. But for me, I used scrivener. Yeah, I was a lit major. Yeah, for sure. I read more in a week than some people read in a year guaranteed.
So my husband always says that I just don't understand. I'm like, I can't stop. It's like just who I am. I love to read. And I think because I have such a strong journal practice and I have like my entire life, I think that then is what you're seeing. I think it's like, because I journal all the time, which is just me talking in my head, I think that's then how it comes to be.
But I love Scrivener because I liked being able to just write and not have to worry about the format until later and then start moving things around. I think sometimes when I read other people's stuff, especially early, if I look at a friend's book or something, you could see how, where people get stuck sometimes with the format or what goes here, what goes there, and you start adding things in.
And I think for me, just being more fluid at the beginning and it makes it a little bit easier. because what this book started with and then what we added in later it just grew and expanded, like you said, it just take shape.
[00:46:37] George: And the things the hurdles you have with your first book. Or like now when you get to your second book, and we did your workbook too, in between there, it's like your focus changed. You're not worried about the same things now that you are worried about what would Live The Width of Your Life when you were writing that.
That's another thing that I like it's great to see your progression from being a first time author to now you're like a seasoned author and people are coming to you for advice about their writing. Hey, would you mind reading a couple chapters in my book?
And so I think that is cool for me that I love that because like I've helped contribute to you opening up even more and being able to help other people in that you never even thought you would
[00:47:17] Aneta: Exactly. It's so fun. And I know people go, Hey, how do you self-publish? I'm like, oh, first of all, this is what I did, but you got to call George. And so that's, so if someone is listening and they're like, I like this guy. I like his vibe. And obviously they've checked you out. What is the best way that people can learn more about you? Is it your website?
[00:47:39] George: Yeah, it's not like a super big website. It just got the books Brucely books I've done. I probably needs to be updated pretty soon here. And it just tells you a little bit about me and how to contact me. I always do free assessments of however much writing you want to give me.
And, I feel like you have to be comfortable as a writer. You have to be comfortable with your editor. You have to feel, they're not judging you. You have to be comfortable sharing with them. Because a lot of times people, especially with fiction not even fiction, even nonfiction, I'll be poking people.
I'll be like, you need to open up a little bit. There are ways that you can express whatever, things that you would never want to share with somebody, but you could express them in a way that it's not about you, where it's more about the subject that you're trying to write about and not necessarily so personal.
So there are a lot of things like that, that people don't realize I could help people with. And, I tell people too I'm just going to give you some information. You're not obligated to work with me, but here's some facts you can go with.
So you can compare what you'll get with me with other editors, and you can figure out what you want and work from there. So I'm pretty open, and like I said, I don't have to go looking. I don't spend all that time looking, which has given me more time to work on my own stuff and to take on more clients and work on more books, because there's people like when you call me, you're like, I've got a project.
I'm like, I push everything. I'm like, let's go. I'm ready to go. And so it's great to have all these people that are in that cycle that are like enjoying writing. They put the books out, they're do podcasts, they sell a bunch of books. It's incredible. Like how many people that you can reach just through basically sitting in your office at home, really. It's incredible.
[00:49:19] Aneta: Yeah. And so what is your website?
[00:49:22] George: I go by literary services. It's the literary services.net.
[00:49:27] Aneta: Perfect.
[00:49:28] George: You can just search George Verongos too. You can search Amazon. Search my name on Amazon and see a bunch of books that I've edited. A lot of people put my name in there and they can contact you.
[00:49:40] Aneta: Yes, we'll include the links and Yeah, I did, that's one of the things I did too, is if you can go to Amazon and just look for George's name because then you'll get a list of everything that he's edited, his own books that he's written as well, which is amazing. And I highly recommend everyone to work with you.
And I'm so excited. I'm already have ideas for the next project but I'm going to stick with this one and promote it and market it. But I am starting to write something I just a little sooner than I thought the next project. So we'll connect on that and I'll let you know what I'm thinking
You know what's really beautiful is that I'm having such amazing conversations with people about their experience with it. I just feel called to create these lantern circles, which are really, it's not a bible study, it's not a book club. It really is something different.
But we use the book as the guide to really start diving into some of the deeper topics and lessons and within each chapter of the book, because there are so many of them. And I think it's just really, I want beautiful small group discussions around what it means to be human. I think that we are all starved for human connection, for real conversation.
I think I just posted today on LinkedIn, one real deep conversation, is like better than a hundred surface level conversations that you'll never remember, and I think that, that's what I hope that, we are able to do. And so I have some local ones that are starting up. I have friends that are in other cities that want to do stuff at their studios.
People have spaces and just really bring people together and maybe we'll do a little bit of a breath work or meditation or something else, more embodiment, somatic work, and have these conversations and really just make some good connections. So that's what I think is next. I want to do it online too.
Yeah. I'm thinking that because not everyone is in the same place, in the same city. Yeah, I think, who knows what it looks like. Maybe there's a community that we're able to do online where everyone connects as well, so some early ideas and thoughts, but I'm open to people sharing what they're looking for and what they want.
Yeah. think it's a good idea. We had a great time. I thought it was really cool and I even got up extra early so I could be there.
The book launch. Yes.
[00:52:00] George: It was cool. I really liked the way too, that people, like some people came in and they leave and they come back and we all interacted. And it was focused, and the purpose was to launch lanterns of but you could tell that people were pushing those boundaries of what we're talking about because it ignited so many ideas in them. It was so moving that people were in tears just talking about oh, when I read that, it really moved me, it's awesome. And I was, in my head, I was like, try reading it 40 times and then tell, no, I was joking.
And that's a testament to like how good the writing is and how emotional it is and how it connects with people. That's the proof right there. You were right there with them. And I can't remember who exactly said it, but a couple people said things that I didn't even realize about the book that they got out of it, so I can't imagine what it's like for you because I'm sure you would talk to several people and you'll be like, what?
Really? I didn't even think that you'd get from A to B like that. So I think it's awesome. It's definitely yeah, you get a lot of help writing this book.
[00:53:00] Aneta: I did divine help and your help, George, but yes, a lot of divine. I read stuff and I was like I don't actually remember writing it. Sometimes it's just inspired and.
[00:53:10] George: There will be times you like, I know what I'm going to do with this. I don't where to go from here. And then the next day you'd produce something. You'd be like, I just meditate on, ask God for help and direct me in that right way. And it's amazing.
[00:53:22] Aneta: It really was. And I think, starting off not wanting to write the book. I think that's the first sentence of the intro is I didn't want to write this book. actually told God no. And then at the end, I really feel like my faith is stronger than ever before. It's just reignited something in me these last two years.
And I think that was just part of the plan. And it makes me really excited to hear others and their experience with it. And that's why I think the lantern circles really are, it is just the next step is to say how do we facilitate these conversations? And especially because the world is so divided and people have forgotten what it's like to love one another, to respect one another, to be open, to listen without judgment, to not wait to speak, to really participate. And let's bring that back. I think that's, one of the most beautiful. Yeah.
[00:54:17] George: I want to do one.
[00:54:19] Aneta: Let's do it. You'll definitely first invite. It'll be amazing, you and Zoe. I would love it. George, I ask everyone, I could talk to you for hours, but I ask everyone a final question, which is, what does it mean to you to live the width of your life?
[00:54:33] George: Personally, I would've to say that, and I mentioned it before that, I've really learned to know that I can decide how I feel. I'm in charge of my emotions, so I can choose to feel good and get myself in alignment with God and source and have that good energy and lead with love and see immediate feedback from people. Not even just people, even animals. I love animals. I'm a big animal rights advocate. I've been vegan for bazillions of years. So just like being out and outside, hanging out and just in nature and seeing oh, this hummingbird, came right in front of my face for 30 seconds, or, picked up this spider from inside and took them outside and they let me touch them and they didn't freak out and just little things like that.
So I think that living the width of my life was just more about getting in touch with myself that helped me feel more connected to people. You can attest to this as well when you have a connection with somebody, it's like you feel it.
You know what I mean? It's like we have a great connection. I see you have great connections with other people as well, or watching your podcast and seeing who the guest is and how you connect with them. Some of the people I sent to you. Don't really do that much self-promotion, they just quietly do their work and everything, and they don't really, put themselves out there too much.
But seeing them connect with you, I knew that some of them you did. You didn't know any of them personally. It wasn't like they didn't have a friendship like we did. There's just complete strangers that, had worked with me and, we're in the same realm as you. And so I love that. I love connecting the dots like that and bringing those people together. It's fantastic.
[00:56:05] Aneta: George, I just can't say thank you enough. I know I've told you over and over again. I'm just, I'm so grateful. I'm grateful to God for sending you my way. Your profile just, it was like totally divine and so grateful for the work we've done together. But above all else, I'm so grateful for your friendship and I just really just consider you just to be a special person in my life.
And so thank you. And anyone listening, if you need an editor, George is the guy. So he's very selective though. He's got lots of clients.
[00:56:38] George: I got it first. She's first in line.
[00:56:41] Aneta: Thank you so much for coming on today, George, and yeah, I look forward to, I appreciate you and I can't wait to see what you write next. You'll have to come back on when you're ready to share your next project.
[00:56:54] George: I promise I will. I won't even complain about it.
[00:56:57] Aneta: There you go. Thank you so much. Take care.
[00:57:01] George: Bye Aneta. Thank you.
[00:57:03] Aneta: Thank you for listening to today's episode. If today's conversation inspired you to dream again, break out of your comfort zones or reflect on what it means to you to live more fully, then please follow this podcast because every week you'll hear more stories from people just like you who took imperfect action towards their goals, created more joy and are living the life that they always dreamt of living.