Why Your Values Matter More Than Society's Rules
Patrick Buchanan
(YouTube Transcript)
Aneta (00:03): Patrick, welcome to the Live the With of Your Life podcast.
Patrick (00:07): Hello, nice to see you.
Aneta (00:09): It's so good to see you. And I'm so looking forward to our conversation. I appreciate you sending over your latest book, The Wolf Mindset. And one of the central ideas that I thought would be an interesting place to start, maybe for a conversation, is this idea that I think originated in your own life, which is that we don't find ourselves; we actually create ourselves. So I'm really curious. Where did that come from, and what do you mean by that?
Patrick (00:39): Well, that idea was born of my own experience being sort of a nomadic rock and roller as a kid, because my first career, if you can call it that, was I was in a number of punk rock bands, and from the time I was a teenager into my late twenties, all I did was travel all around the country and play live music at different clubs and record albums.
I lived the starving-artist rock-and-roll lifestyle for most of my twenties. I loved a lot of parts of that life: the freedom and the wonder. And was at a point in my life when I was a lot younger, so everything was still new to me. And it was a wonderful way to live when you're kind of discovering the world and discovering who you are. But then
I got to a point where I said, I'm just sort of like riding the wave that life gives me. And I want to actually create where my life goes. And so when you think about finding yourself, you think about things like On the Road by Jack Kerouac, or all those old 60s foreign films where you're breathless or whatever, where they just get in a car and drive somewhere and have a wild adventure.
And it's very romantic, and it's a very beautiful idea. But in practical terms, most people can't do that. You can't just get into a car and say, I'm going to take a road trip across the country and find myself now. It's just not practical for most people. So what is practical is to sit down and ask, what can I imagine my life being like?
What steps do I need to take in order to get my life to that point where I want it to be? And then how do I actually do the work and, like, maintain the discipline and willpower required to let the ideal life become my actual real life? And that's what I've been doing ever since. And that's kind of a central theme to the book.
Aneta (02:56): I love this idea that you talk about having the vision, doing the work of thinking, what do I actually want? What is it that I actually want? So, what practices have helped you to actually be able to answer that? Because I think that's a question that so many people struggle with: actually knowing what they want. So they say yes to just maybe whatever is next, or just to an iteration of where they're currently at. So how did you figure that out, being able to answer that question?
Patrick (03:25): Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I think that everything starts from within, honestly; everything really has to have an internal motivation. And so one thing I get back to over and over again in the book is that whatever it is that you think you want to do or you think is important in life, make sure that is an internal motivation because there are a lot of external forces that will try to put importance on your life, right? Advertising, for example. I know this firsthand because I worked in the advertising business for 10 years. And so I know how susceptible people are to advertising taglines and beautiful
TV commercials that make them want to buy stuff, and ideas in movies or TV shows that make them want to do this or that. So the first thing is, make sure that whatever it is that you think you want to do is really coming from within you, or is it from some external pressure, like society, or from a loved one, or a family member, or whatever?
And so, if it starts from within, that's generally a good sign that it's more real than anything that comes from an external source. And then once you know something is real, then you can say, okay, this is real. I know because it comes from within me. What specific steps do I need to take to turn this concept into reality?
And that's just sort of the structure of the book laid out from the very beginning. We're talking about big picture thinking, like big ideas. And then we get into specific exercises and the minutiae of what you need to do to make these ideas a reality.
Aneta (05:22): Yeah, I love it. Do you mind walking through the structure? Because I think it is pretty brilliant. It's like you've got a lot of inspiration and sharing of your own stories, but then also frameworks around it. It would be really helpful, I think, to share the framework around the book and some of the methodologies used.
Patrick (05:41): Sure. It's called the Wolf Mindset because Wolf is an acronym for Will Power, Order, Love, and Fidelity. Basically, one leads into the next. It works as a holistic framework. This book is essentially the written culmination of what I did to myself multiple times throughout my life. And then I realized, like, wow, I've had three completely separate careers that seem to have nothing to do with each other, but yet I made all of them happen just through my own imagination. And it's almost like I manifested each one of these different lives into existence.
And then I thought, well, it didn't just happen. I had to, like, do a lot of stuff to make all this stuff happen. So how did I actually do it? And then I started to think about that. And I went, wow, there's actually a book here. There's like a book in all of this. So I tried to distill it all onto the page. And so if you're thinking about, okay, I want my life to change.
It doesn't matter how you want it to change; it could be anything. Whether you want a new career, a change in your love life, a change in where you live, you want to start a business, or whatever it might be, the structure of Wolf is this: Willpower comes first.
And that's kind of the big idea. That's like the main spark. That's the essence. What do I want in big-picture thinking? What is it that I want? So that's willpower. And then that leads into order, which is essentially: what specific steps do I need to take, based on what I want to happen, for that to happen.
And this is where we get into actual, actionable events and structure and kind of the minutiae of action, right? Then love is basically the idea that when you're doing this stuff, you have the idea, then you go, okay, I need to do this to make the idea happen. You start to do that. There will inevitably be a lot of pushback and setbacks, obstacles that you will encounter on the road to becoming the thing that you want to be.
Because nothing great is ever easy. It's always a challenge. So love comes into play because you need to truly love the vision you created for yourself at the very beginning, and you need to feel and express love. For all of the people in your life that are playing a part in helping that new idea become a reality. And then that leads into fidelity. And finally, with fidelity, that's essentially just staying true to your idea and not giving up on your idea and not saying, well, I guess it didn't work because it didn't happen immediately or whatever.
Like you need to have fidelity, meaning be faithful to yourself and be faithful to your own vision of your new reality that you have. And if you have all of those things in succession, it creates like a loop. And that's the wolf framework in a nutshell.
Aneta (09:35): That's so good. I love that it's something that you developed as you were looking back on your life and you looked at those different life arcs that you had, and I just want to go back a little bit and talk a little bit about some of those life arcs because you were in this punk rock band or maybe bands, I'm not sure.
Patrick (09:53): Yeah, a lot of different bands. Yeah.
Aneta (09:57): Yeah, a lot of different bands. How long did you do that before you decided to move into advertising, right? Marketing, advertising.
Patrick (10:02): Yep. That's a wild story. The first time I decided to create my own reality was when I was a young kid. I was born in a small town in Nebraska. And it was very, very boring, not very culturally interesting, honestly. I mean, I've been back since, and it's a little more interesting now than it was when I was growing up there, but it's definitely not very interesting or very cool.
There was like one record store in town. There were a couple of coffee shops and a couple of bookstores, and that was about it. And so right at the beginning, I've always been a bit of a misfit, and I've always been very artistic. And I just didn't fit in. I knew that I didn't fit in with a lot of the people around me.
Not that I thought that I was better than everybody. It's just that I knew it was really obvious that the stuff that all these people cared about, I didn't really care about. And a lot of the things that I cared about very deeply, I knew not a lot of other people cared about all that much. So I thought to myself, how do I get out of this small town and avoid having to live here for the rest of my life? And I thought.
I'm going to create a band, make records, tour all over the country, see the world, and have all these experiences. And that was the very first structure that I made. I'm going to make this band, and we are going to go and travel, and we're going to escape Nebraska. And that's exactly what we did. And I just kept it going all throughout my 20s.
It was a really amazing way to live, especially when you're younger, and you're finding out the world and experiencing all these new things. It was amazing. But when I got into my mid-to-late 20s, I started to say, I'm an adult now, and I need to actually make money. And the band most certainly did not make money. It was like we could barely pay for the next night’s trip and pay for gas to get to the next gig.
And people think about people in bands and think like everybody's living the rock star life with like champagne and being on a tour bus and stuff. And it was absolutely not like that at all. So then I did the same thing again, but I told myself this time, how do I have a career that pays me real money?
But a career that's not going to make me feel absolutely miserable every day. Because the last thing I wanted to do was just wake up and go to some cubicle and just work some terrible job that was torture for eight to 10 hours a day. And that's when I just did some work, and I researched, and I thought, okay, I know I'm really creative. I know I'm a good writer.
What about advertising copywriting? Because essentially, you just get paid to think up stories for brands every day. So I thought it seemed like a really good job and a good career. So I did the research and the work required to figure out what I needed to do to become an advertising copywriter. I did that. And then I worked that career for a decade, actually over a decade, and by the end of it I was creative director, which is just about as high as you can get in the ad industry. So I was a creative director at a number of different agencies, and I worked on some really incredibly high-profile work, including co-writing a Super Bowl TV spot with Bob Dylan once, yeah.
Aneta (13:57): How did that come to be?
Patrick (14:01): I was at this agency in Detroit, and we did a pitch for a Super Bowl spot, and we won the pitch, and we got Bob Dylan on board, and I wrote the first iteration of the script. We sent it to Dylan, and he's like, Yeah, I really like the script. Can we massage a few changes in here? And we said, Well, of course. Like, you're not gonna say no to Bob Dylan when he says, Can I make a change to a script?
So essentially, even though we were never in the same room when this happened, I co-wrote a Super Bowl TV spot with Bob Dylan, which aired during the 2014 Super Bowl. And you can actually go on YouTube right now and see the commercial. If you type in Chrysler 300 Bob Dylan, you'll see the TV spot I wrote.
So I did that, and then once I started, it was kind of an interesting thing, like when COVID happened, we were all working from home, and everybody had a lot more downtime because everybody was working from home, of course. That's when I got into day trading. I learned quickly and realized that in one hour a day,
I was making more money day trading than I made in my entire rest-of-the-day salaried job as creative director. And that was a good salary. It was a very good salary, and yet I was still making more money in the first hour of the day day trading. And so eventually I thought, why am I even working a full-time job when I can make more money and work five hours per day? So
I kind of did the same thing again, once more, and said, what exactly do I need to do to make this transition really smooth and make this become my new reality? And then I did that. Once I fully transitioned into day trading, I was able to write books about it and do video courses about it because I had so much more free time to spend creating all these other educational materials. And then it just kind of blossomed. Then I wrote The Wolf Mindset. And now I'm actually even doing like one-on-one coaching with people based on the wolf mindset. And here we are right now.
Aneta (16:31): Amazing. What is it about you, do you think that didn't allow any fear or doubts to maybe to stop the work you wanted to do or that didn't stop you from trying all these new things because they are very different. It's not easy to say I'm gonna be in a band or I'm gonna become a creative director or I'm gonna quit my job and start day trading.
So many people stay stuck because of fear, worries, or doubts, or because they're scared to take risks. So what was it about you that allowed you to either not let those things stop you, or do you naturally not have fears or doubts?
Patrick (17:10): Well, I definitely do have fears. There's been fear all along ever since the beginning. But I do believe courage isn't the absence of fear; it's experiencing fear and doing what you need to do anyway. So for me, it was just always more important.
Being able to live the type of life I wanted was more important to me than having any sort of approval or money. I mean, you have to have money, of course, but I don't fetishize money the way some people do, and so I think that. I was able to do a lot of what I've done because my values are uniquely my own. And a lot of those values mean that I don't need to fit into a system of any sort. For example, most people have an idea of what a successful person is. You think like a
Successful people have a really fancy, expensive car, and successful people wear a really expensive watch. You notice I don't even have a watch on. I don't care about having a very fancy watch. I just don't. Even though society says if you're successful, you have a really expensive watch. So whenever anybody sees you, looks at you, and says, Wow, look at the watch that guy's wearing. He must be really successful.
That doesn't matter to me. And I don't hold it against anybody if that does matter to them, but that's just me. So to answer your question, I think I've been able to do everything I've been able to do because I've created my own rules for what is important and what isn't. And I haven't let anything sway me from those rules. Ever since I made them. And I think that's just what it is.
Aneta (19:19): I love that. I also believe that our inner values should be our compass or GPS, and it's a place that we can keep coming back to and say, okay, yes, this aligns or doesn't align. But I still think so many people, and so many of my clients, they do get stuck on, I think, accumulating, building, achieving, and then getting to a point where, in order for them to make a change, it seems like they would have to give it up.
There's a fear that what if I lose everything that I've built? So was there anything in the way you were raised or in any of the studies that you've done that have helped strengthen this sort of tenacity that you have and this resilience to say, no, I'm always going to come back, and default to my values and not what society is telling me is important?
Patrick (20:07): Yeah, it was absolutely in my upbringing because my dad was extremely unique; he was one of a kind. Like, he broke the mold. He was a sculptor, an artist. He was a college professor; he was a philosopher. I mean, his work- he made gigantic welded steel sculptures; some of them were 60 feet tall.
I mean, he had a show with Andy Warhol and Robert Rauschenberg one time. He was an amazing, inspiring person. And so he was the same way in the sense that he did not care what anybody else thought about him. So when I was growing up, I would watch him be who he was and think, well, this is just normal.
Like, you live your life and do what you want, and you don't pay attention to what other people think about your decisions. I mean, he had a little red convertible 1960 Triumph TR3 car that we would ride around in February when it was like 35 degrees out, and we'd have huge hats on just because he felt like he wanted to ride around in the car, even though it was like nearly freezing. He did a lot of crazy stuff.
He built me like the first little car that I drove. He made me a little go-kart, essentially, that I was driving when I was four years old. I mean, he did a lot of stuff that would probably be considered child endangerment right now. But at the time it was incredibly fun, and we had a really good time.
So I would say that it was definitely having him as the main role model in my life growing up gave me sort of the fearlessness, I guess, of just saying, you just live your life and then you create who you are.
Aneta (22:00): I love that. I'm not surprised that you had that as an example. And as you were sharing the story, I could just imagine you as a kid saying, " Wow, anything is possible because here you are, being a witness to someone with so much creativity and so many different passions. I think that there are so many individuals who are multi-passionate.
But somehow we are told at a very young age that we have to choose, or we have to pick a lane, or we have to go down it and then just give so much of our energy to that that there's no space for anything else. So if someone is listening and maybe they aren't feeling fulfilled, maybe they've been in a career for a long time, and they've invested so much, but they just have this restlessness or this knowing that they want to try something different, like what would be the first step that you would tell them to do?
Patrick (22:51): Yeah, that's a great question. This is something I tell people who come to me and say, "I'm really stuck." The people I work with are very successful, and they have a lot of money. But I mean, a lot of people who have a lot of money are deeply unhappy. The old saying that money doesn't buy happiness is absolutely correct. And I always say, okay, you've got all this stuff.
You've made this life. You've built all of these things. You're a player in whatever industry you're in, but yet you feel like something's missing. I always say, what is your spiritual first love? Think back to your spiritual first love. And what I mean by that is: what's the thing that's not necessarily a first memory, but the first thing that made the hair on the back of your neck stand up or made you feel life is beautiful or the world is beautiful.
What is that thing? And that thing could be anything. For me personally, getting back to my dad here for a second, the very first memory I have in my entire life is of my dad holding me on his shoulder and dancing around our living room while listening to classical music, because he was a huge classical music fan. And that was the literal first memory of listening to Beethoven or Bach or Mozart and just dancing around and holding me on his shoulder. My first memory when I was, I don't even a couple years old. I don't know, but that's the first memory.
And so music is my spiritual first love. And so any time in life when I'm feeling stuck, or I feel whatever, you know, depressed or unmotivated or stressed out, or any negative adjective you want to throw up there, I'll just grab my guitar, and I'll start playing guitar, and I'll write songs or I'll listen to some of my favorite music. And without a doubt, that always makes it better.
And it's just one step, but of course, you have to take that very first step. And so if people say, I'm feeling really unmotivated, uninspired, I'll tell them: think of your spiritual first love, and then think: is there an essence that you can take from that spiritual first love and connect something about that essence into an actionable thing that you can do right now.
Because it's not just about memory. You can't simply think back to a memory. A memory won't make you feel better right now. But if you can figure out a way to take the essence of what this thing is, connect it to your life right now, and plug it in, that will absolutely make your life better in its current iteration. So that's step one.
Aneta (26:02): I love that. I think that what you're tapping into there is a little bit of embodying the feeling of going back to that moment of awe, delight, love, whatever that is, because that can overcome fear. It becomes a magnet that pulls us forward toward something we want to recreate or revisit. And I'm curious, one of the things you talk about in the book is that a positive mindset on its own isn't going to create the transformational change we need. So can you just share a little bit more about your thoughts on that?
Patrick (26:36): Yeah, that's a great question because the one thing that I think is kind of lacking about a lot of motivation or self-help type of books is the fact that they don't go deep enough into doing specific work a lot of times. If you think I'm just gonna imagine myself being successful and then I'll be successful, it's a very nice romantic idea.
And of course, you have to have optimism. I mean, it goes without saying that you have to be optimistic, and you need to believe that you're going to succeed. But telling yourself, "I will be successful," that's the starting point. That's not the finish line. And I feel like a lot of these self-help motivation books portray that positive mindset as more of a finish line, like saying you just need to believe in yourself.
And once you can believe in yourself, then that's it. You've done it. You're gonna be happy because you're believing in yourself. And what I'm saying is that's the starting line. Believing in yourself is the starting line. But there's still so much work that you need to do once you accept, like, okay, I can do this; I'm able to do this.
That's the starting line. Then you need to say, what exactly do I need to do to, like, manifest? You're trying to manifest your reality, but you can't manifest your reality without doing specific work. So that's what it is.
Aneta (28:11): Yeah, I think there's been a disservice that's been done to people with the word manifestation. And instead of just making things manifest in this world, I think too often people think you can just sit, dream it, imagine it, or create a vision board and it's going to be created out of thin air. But the aligned action is so necessary. It's like the masculine plus the feminine energy.
It's devotion and discipline together that really create that. And also when you go down that path, I know in my own personal life, there are things I thought I wanted as I was starting my business. I was pretty clear that I would love to try this, or I think I could see myself doing it. And I did some of those things. And then I was like, I don't love that.
And so I think that part of the process of life, and I'm curious about your take on this, is that you only learn what you love. You only learn what you like, enjoy, or want to do for a much longer period of time by doing it. There is no final destination, right? It's all part of the journey. And I think your life arc is a great demonstration of that because if we just assume that if we try something and it doesn't work out and it's a failure, we're much more likely to not want to do it again. So, what is your relationship with failure, air quotes, or this idea of testing things out before you even determine, wow, maybe this is temporary, maybe this is long term?
Patrick (29:40): Yeah, I mean, that's definitely something that I've done a lot of times in my life. I'll try doing something and realize this is not really for me. And I think that's very important. You have to be okay with failing to a certain degree. There's like a real stigma about failure. Like I'm not going to fail. And I kind of disagree with all the hate put on the idea of failing.
Sometimes failing can be a very important thing for you, and it can teach you a really big lesson about yourself. And if you never fail, you'll never have to overcome anything. If everything were easy, if life handed you everything and there were never any obstacles, you'd never grow as a person. Some of the biggest steps forward I feel I've taken in my own life have come after some relatively large failures. And it's only because if you can learn from the failure, then the failure is very, very important. It's only a bad thing if you don't learn from a failure. But when you learn, it's going to be really good for you in the long run.
Aneta (30:55): Yeah, I mean, it's a lesson, right? It's a lesson we learn; we can apply it, grow, and get to the next step. And I think the more we do that, the less it becomes stigmatized. That word: failure, or disappointment, or whatever the word is that we want to use. And I know that on a journey of a life where you make a lot of changes, and you do the work that you've done, and you make the shifts, how have you been able to protect what is important to you? I know, and you call it protecting your light, maybe your energy, staying true to who you are, even if there are others who don't necessarily get it. I think that's a huge part of this. So I'm really curious as to how you've been able to do that in your life.
Patrick (31:36): Yeah, it's been difficult at times, especially when you realize that you're not like a big chunk of society; that puts you almost from the jump. You're an outsider, literally by definition. I mean, I know my thoughts and opinions aren't the thoughts and opinions of a big chunk of this country.
So it's important to just basically continuously look inward. And that's kind of like where the fidelity part of the wolf framework comes in. And you could apply fidelity not just in terms of looking at a specific action or idea of something you want to happen, but fidelity to your own beliefs and your own kind of your own idea of who you want to be, really, on like a bigger-picture sense, not just specifically like, I want this to happen, so I'm gonna do these specific steps. More like this is the life that I want. And even if everybody else doesn't get it, the thing that's important is that I get it and that I understand why I'm doing this for me.
Like I was saying a little bit earlier, with society putting a lot of pressure on people about what is supposed to be important, you have to look at yourself in the mirror. Nobody else is going to be the person looking at you in the mirror. You are looking at yourself in the mirror. And so every night when you go to sleep, you have to say, Am I the person that I want to be, or am I allowing myself to be somebody else because of who I think other people want me to be? And it's just important to always say, I'm going to be who I want to be. And whatever the consequences of that are, I'm gonna stay true to myself.
Aneta (33:39): Yeah, it's such an important lesson. And I think it's obviously been one that's worked for you. One of the things you also write about that I'm really passionate about is breath work and just the breath. I think you say a calm mind is a powerful mind. So one of the things I do is facilitate breathwork, and I know what a big impact it's made in my life, but how did you find breathwork, and what does your daily practice or regular practice look like today?
Patrick (34:03): Yeah, yeah. I love doing box breathing, especially the fourfold breath. It's got a couple different names, but that's extremely important to me. I basically kind of came into understanding breathwork when I started looking into different ceremonial magic type of practices and just different esoteric type of ideas, and one thing that I talk about in the book is that although I'm not a religious person in the sense that I don't practice any one specific religion, I'm very interested in all different religious texts, whatever they may be.
And just because I think that there's a lot of really unique like there's ideas you can take from all of these different types of religions and bring it into your life. And magic was one of those things where, when I learned about breathwork through the Hermetic Order, the Golden Dawn talks about doing fourfold breath techniques. I really got into that, and I just noticed that it helped me. Once I started doing it every day, it really helped me. So yeah, every day when I wake up in the morning.
I do a little bit of breath work to get myself kind of ready. And when I'm doing a morning session, I usually do, rather than the fourfold breath, I'll do a really, really deep inhale, and then a quick inhale, and then a slow exhale to really just kind of, like, get the nervous system, like, just kind of jump-started.
And then later on in the evenings, sometimes before bed, sometimes actually when I'm lying in bed about to go to sleep, I'll do the fourfold breath and it really just calms me and puts me into a wonderful sleep state. I love doing breathwork as well as meditative-type practices.
Aneta (35:59): So good. So, so good. Patrick, for those who are interested in finding the book and the wolf mindset, if they want to follow you to learn more about you and how they could even work with you, what is the best way to find you?
Patrick (36:14): The best way that you can find me is if you want to try to do a one-on-one program. I'm not doing a one-size-fits-all thing right now. I may expand to more of a group setting and offer a less intensive group option in the future. But right now, I'm only doing one-on-one coaching. If you're interested,
The website is www.wolfmindset.life. So it's just www.wolfmindset.life. And that's essentially just an intake form. It's just a one-page website where you can get in touch with me and tell me a little bit about yourself. And if I think that we can work together, then that would be the way to do that. And
I also have my other day trading business, which is completely separate. And I don't want to put too much time into that because it's a whole different thing. But if anybody is interested in learning how to day trade stock options for a living, I also have Lone Wolf Trading Club, which is my day trading website. And I've basically written books and created video courses to teach people how to day trade stock options.
So it's a completely different thing. But getting back to what you said a little bit ago about how it's fun and exciting to do multiple things in life at once, and you don't have to go down just one path. And the coaching path really grew out of the day trading path because I had some fairly high-net-worth day traders who said, "I want to learn your whole system."
Teach me all of it. And then I said, this is a whole other thing I can do right here. And then it just grew out of that. So everything just kind of snowballs into everything else in this big never-ending circle of creativity in life.
Aneta (38:14): That's wonderful. Well, definitely include the links and then the book. Can they purchase it anywhere?
Patrick (38:20): The book is available on Amazon.com. Yeah, there's a book, and there's also an audiobook version that I narrated myself, which I have to say was a bit more daunting than I thought it would be before I started.
Aneta (38:37): I've written two books, and I've not done the audio versions yet. I've started, and I am like, I'm speaking too quickly. I want to cough. There are all kinds of things.
Patrick (38:46): Yeah.
Aneta (38:47): It is not an easy process. So I commend you for that. Patrick, I ask everyone a final question on the podcast, which is tied to the title of the podcast. What does it mean to you to live the width of your life?
Patrick (39:00): Well, I love this title for your podcast, and I love it because I think that living the width of your life is absolutely something that more people should think about doing. And I think that most people think about depth of experience. Like I'm going to do one thing, and I'm going to get really good at one thing.
I've always been more interested in having a wide variety of interests, loves, and experiences. So, for me personally, living the width of my life means having not only the ability, but the drive and follow-through to go after all these wild ideas that come into my head. Cause all the time I'm doing stuff.
I'm making a new record with a band that I'm playing in. I'm thinking about writing another book. I've already started my next book. I'm thinking about another video course about day trading that I'll put up on my site. I'm always thinking about new places to visit that I haven't traveled to before. So living the width of my life is about being okay with chasing that dream, wherever it's trying to take me.
And I think it's super important for everybody to never lose sight of their dreams and to chase their dreams and to not be afraid to chase their dreams. So that's what living the width of a life means to me.
Aneta (40:38): I love that. Thank you, Patrick, for your time today. Thank you for the great work that you are doing in this world. I just wish you continued success in all your endeavors.
Patrick (40:47): Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. And it's been a really, really awesome conversation. So thanks once again.
Aneta (40:55): Thank you.
Patrick (40:56): All right. Have a good day.